Absolutely rinsed in this budget - almost £1k a year worse off.

None of those facts.

The fact is that she lied.

she didn’t use the latest forecast and lied about the blackhole.

And welfare bill has never been higher, the number of people on benefits has never been higher. The number of net takers from the system has never been higher. And the amount of tax paid by the lowest share of net contributors has never been higher.

All equals more people doing less and taking from those who are productive. Orchestrated by a liar who tells lies about economic forecasts.

Despite your snarky remarks, i ll try again....

Welfare spend is across a huge range, you want pensions frozen? UC frozen? CB frozen triple lock gone? etc etc.

I hope you were in full support of Labours original WFA plans???

The pool of people in work is at record highs, the amount of tax taken is also at record highs.

These are the facts.

On forecasts, my point is that say she uses the 4bn one, then next month OBR turn around and say "oops, got that wrong, its 6bn blackhole...."

You d be the first to say "Why didn't she have more fiscal headroom?, she should resign!"

£4bn, in a 2 trillion economy and the uncertainty in todays world, is nothing at all.

In most western countries, yes, it does. It doesn't in the UK bc the wages are shockingly low and people just accept a bad standard of living. Low wages, high taxes, high CoL.

A combined income of 140k does not make you ‘middle’.

UK welfare spending is due to increase by £73b per year in the next 5 years.

She could have could cut welfare by £73b, or less, instead of raising taxes. So no, it’s not just a £3b increase.

And no, she did not need to raise taxes.

Are we getting overwhelmed by big numbers again on this thread? You can knock a bit over a million off that 5 mill to take into account people who are stay at home parents. Then there are 10 million disabled people of working age in the UK, its not difficult to understand a percentage of those won't be able to work. Then there are a million mature students in the UK not all of them will be working. I'm sure there are also some lazy feckless people like you are implying but 5 million isn't bad really considering all the reasons people may not be working.

Stay at home parents and students won’t be claiming benefits.

Are we getting overwhelmed by big numbers again on this thread? You can knock a bit over a million off that 5 mill to take into account people who are stay at home parents. Then there are 10 million disabled people of working age in the UK, its not difficult to understand a percentage of those won't be able to work. Then there are a million mature students in the UK not all of them will be working. I'm sure there are also some lazy feckless people like you are implying but 5 million isn't bad really considering all the reasons people may not be working.

5 -10 million both numbers are far too high

That is incredibly sobering.

Looks like you’ve swallowed the government line, hook, line and sinker.

There is no reason to spend £400b a year on welfare. There is no reason to tax an ever decreasing number of productive people to pay an ever increasing number of working age unproductive people.

10 million people of working age on benefits and not working is a joke. Except it’s not funny.

These are the facts.

I think you’re focusing on the politics and not the facts. Public services are in the toilet and need investment. You seem fixated on the 2 child cap/welfare in general, when there are so many other things that need fixing.

’the public’ is not one homogenous mass,, and to say the nation js at odds with all MPs is meaningless, its so broad brush. Added to that, governments sometimes have to make unpopular decisions and do so with far more information than is in the public domain. And sometimes they make popular choice which, with hindsight, were disastrous. I don’t want a populist government I want one that is technocratic and competent. I’m not saying this government are perfect - they’re not very good at what should be manageable optics imo - but I’d rather they make tough decisions than keep presenting everything is fine, like their predecessors.

Tax rises were 100% needed.

The lifting of the 2 cap limit (btw i don't agree with that) is a 3bn increase in spending.

Reeves needs a fiscal buffer of a great deal more than 4bn, that was her trouble last year, hence borrowing costs shot up.

No it isn't, is 100% true - the OBR have told her lots of things, over the last 16months, as have the IFS etc etc.

All can be true.

The 22bn black hole was a OBR forecast too!

In your hurry to get her kicked out, this is what you re missing.

Having looked at it all, whoever was in power would have had to have a far bigger fiscal headroom than 4bn, especially given the OBR and their totally inaccurate forecasting.

On the lying, i listened to her speech in the commons, did she say the BH was 22bn?

There’s a lot of talk from Labour that these increased taxes are required to safeguard services. What I would actually like them to tell me what percentage of these taxes will go to these services and what is the percentage going toward the welfare state?

I think you’re focusing on the politics and not the facts. Public services are in the toilet and need investment. You seem fixated on the 2 child cap/welfare in general, when there are so many other things that need fixing.

’the public’ is not one homogenous mass,, and to say the nation js at odds with all MPs is meaningless, its so broad brush. Added to that, governments sometimes have to make unpopular decisions and do so with far more information than is in the public domain. And sometimes they make popular choice which, with hindsight, were disastrous. I don’t want a populist government I want one that is technocratic and competent. I’m not saying this government are perfect - they’re not very good at what should be manageable optics imo - but I’d rather they make tough decisions than keep presenting everything is fine, like their predecessors.

I think you’re focusing on the politics and not the facts. Public services are in the toilet and need investment. You seem fixated on the 2 child cap/welfare in general, when there are so many other things that need fixing.

’the public’ is not one homogenous mass,, and to say the nation js at odds with all MPs is meaningless, its so broad brush. Added to that, governments sometimes have to make unpopular decisions and do so with far more information than is in the public domain. And sometimes they make popular choice which, with hindsight, were disastrous. I don’t want a populist government I want one that is technocratic and competent. I’m not saying this government are perfect - they’re not very good at what should be manageable optics imo - but I’d rather they make tough decisions than keep presenting everything is fine, like their predecessors.

She lied so she could go appease Labour MPs who are at odds with the general public. The public is in favour of two child benefit cap, the public is also in favour of cutting the scandalous benefits bill. Labour MPs, most of whom are just glorified activists and not the most fiscally aware people ever having run anything in real life, are for unlimited spending.

Labour MPs are looking to kick out Starmer and Reeves, which is well publicised. She did it to save her job. What she did is corruption.

I presume that’s why they have a lower rate, they’ll apply the lower rate to the whole mileage I imagine.