To think raising NMW is a good thing

What retail jobs are these?

Well, prices are going to go up, so it will not make much difference to you at all and it is also likely that people will lose their jobs, so they will be even worse off.

I do know people who do retail. Earn around £30k. ish. That's enough to live off.

That's equivalent to what starting graduate jobs make.

@AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii I have to say you should of choosen more wisely. Doing a nursing degree is questionable in this economy not just the money but the work load! I say that as someone who works in a hospital too so I'm not having a dig.

This is true, at least for the company I work for- they love an excuse to do this. They already cut overtime so all shifts are short staffed and at times, very stressful for both staff and customers. No time and a half on a bank holiday anymore, no maternity cover. They don’t have to btw. The shareholders are thrilled with the profits increasing year on year, they’re more than ok.

I am in favour of increasing minimum wages (I’m on NMW myself) but I know what will happen.

I agree with this in principle. Some careers are unfairly paid because the government unfairly limits funding. Like carers, nurses.

But I agree with what you said for other careers. Like it might sound harsh but growing up I would tell my children to work hard at school so they didn't end up stacking shelves at Tesco forever. (I chose my name ironically for this thread)

Even so aren't there internal opportunities available within these roles? Turnover is relatively high anyway. And some googling shows me they support employee development.

I'm in favour of personal responsibility

Yes ok fair enough. A small but important number of businesses, proportionately. Things like nurseries and care homes.

Speaking for myself (hospitality), I would just like an environment in which people have some spare cash to spend and enjoy. I know I have a good product because I have been in business 20 years. Things have never been as tough as they are now.

I think its a good thing, if you're a single adult on the minimum wage or even a couple then its actually really hard to live without relying on benefits.
If the government have to topup wages with benefits it costs the country more.
Everything there is a rise in nmw the usually objections come out about it suppressing the job market. I don't think that's try, if you need someone to staff your shop , clean your hospital, wait on your restaurant tables then you needs traffic.if you rely on government to top up your employees wages you are not a viable business

Exactly. They would notice pretty quickly if their offices weren't cleaned or their rubbish taken away or supermarkets closed but they don't care about the people doing it. Remember the key workers we were all so grateful for during the pandemic?. Not so grateful when they get 50p extra an hour though.

I wish people would just be honest and say they don't think low earners should be entitled to anything but a bedsit to live in and gruel to eat. Maybe we should bring back workhouses? Or scrap minimum wage entirely? I am sure if workers were earning £5 an hour the prices would all go down dramatically. No chance prices would stay the same and shareholders and the CEO would just get the extra profit. They would clearly pass on these savings to the consumer....

YANBU. Broadly a good thing, although it does hit labour intensive businesses in hospitality and social care hardest.

Governments of all colours will always put up the NMW. For the most part, the predictions of economic collapse made when it was introduced haven't happened and unemployment is lower now than it was in 1997. The costs are pushed on to private industry, and the taxpayer benefits twice- from a decrease in the welfare budget, and an increase in the tax take.

Maybe Reform won't put it up. But the huge cuts to immigration and possible repatriation policies demanded by it's core supporters will shrink the labour force and cause wage rises anyway.

Good point.

But what do people living hand to mouth spend most of their extra wage on?

Food.

And yes, maybe a coffee from the coffee shop, instead of a Tesco own brand instant at home.

And of course, more mail order might mean more delivery drivers, more staff at the warehouses etc.

It's like I said in my post, the debate is not settled.

Emotive image, but where exactly in the UK do people "slave away like they did in Dickens’ time for an exploitative employer."

Are working time regulations no longer applicable, or have huge numbers of workers chosen to opt out?

edited for typo

Constantly raising the minimum wage might not be the answer but neither is refusing to when we're in the middle of a cost of living crisis and have an ideological social opposition to benefits in full swing, including in-work benefits.

In reality society depends on many businesses that don't turn profits. Social care providers for example provide a de facto public service and many should never be expected to self sustaining.

100% this, I’ve just done 4 years degree level to become a nurse I’m on £17 per hour, pay rises are pitiful and as you have pointed out the minimum and national wage keeps going up and up, coupled with debts for student nurses in England and no jobs I honestly do wonder why I’ve bothered and many more will start to think the same

The increase for 18-20 year olds is insanity. Anyone thinking thats a good thing, just as the most contentious change to employment rights in a generation is being thrashed out which will tank the job market on its own, is very, very naive.

I think business owners would prefer a more favourable and more healthy business environment which pays for itself rather than being given subsidies. Making businesses reliant on subsidies won't fix anything.

People ALWAYS like to think there’s an easy answer to increasing the tax take that doesn’t involve them paying more tax. See ‘tax the millions of £ companies make’. These companies already pay 25% tax. That’s not the answer. Increase the basic rate of tax if we need more money it. Everyone has to pay for better public services.

The cost of employing someone on minimum wage was has gone up by over 40% in just 5 years. That's a huge change for many businesses.

A massive issue is the creeping upwards of the minimum wage and people in "middle" positions' income barely moving, and people in graduate jobs. And there are a lot of them. Graduates who have spent three or four years studying and emerge with a degree and a ton of debt earning barely any more than the people with no skills and qualifications.

I don't think people in general have a problem with poor people becoming less poor. What they are debating is whether the crude attempts to fix poverty by the government will fix anything at all. Because when more people can afford things, prices tend to go up. And when businesses are being asked AGAIN to spend more on pay and NI increases, prices will go up. People on NMW aren't suddenly going to be able to afford to buy lots of lovely things because they are suddenly better off.

You cannot just blame everything on greedy business owners.

Anyway, I own a small business and employ three people part time. Damn right I want to be paid more than they are. I take literally ALL the risk and don't get any benefits at all. People can call me names if they wish.

In theory I agree with everyone being paid a wage they a reasonably live on. One problem I have is that the pay gap between people with low responsibility roles and those with high responsibility and more
demanding roles is getting smaller and smaller as there is no corresponding increase in the upper pay scales (public sector). Who wants to take on more responsibility and stress for a tiny pay increase.

The thing is though no one wants Coca-Cola to go under either.

Just imagine the job loses.

The sheer hatred of everyone providing, or trying to provide jobs is so misguided.

The government should be more focused on subsidising SMEs that struggle to pay wages. Not the suits at multi million pound retailers that ideologically refuse to pay decent wages.

So your company is loss making ?

out of curiosity. Looked to see the impact if the increase NMW and NI, and came up with this.

“The extra cost of increasing the National Minimum Wage (NMW) and National Insurance (NI)
falls on employers, and can be significant. For example, one calculation for a 35-hour-per-week employee aged 21+ on minimum wage shows a combined annual increase of £2,367 in wages and employer's NI contributions, according to Consilium Chartered Accountants. The exact total cost depends on the employee's salary, but it will increase staff costs and could lead employers to reduce hiring, offer smaller pay rises to other staff, or increase prices for customers, notes the BBC and Price Bailey Chartered Accountants. “

ie. £2000+ per year per person so if you employ five people, that’s £10000 + a year extra you have to find. And that’s profit, not turnover.