To think raising NMW is a good thing

It will definitely be worse for young people especially those trying to get jobs whilst studying or in jobs not requiring higher education quals (people often forget that families struggle and need old teens to contribute). Businesses wont want to take on an inexperienced younger when they have to pay them so much.

I think full time more skilled work for young people may get better as they'll work for NMW to get in the door, experienced workers will want more money so businesses will want to pay as little as possible to survive.

If only this were true. Perhaps in the long run and maybe some larger companies but the reality for a lot of us that have just managed to start earning above NMW is we are back to earning NMW again (or very close to) and given rising above NMW often comes at a cost such as paying for education or reduced free time due to studying etc it makes people start to wonder "why bother".

I know for myself I spent a few thousand on a distance learning course and lost many hours of family time to get my just above NMW job. Now I will be only earning 29 pence an hour more than if I hadn't bothered. My company will struggle to afford the NMW increase so certainly won't be increasing the pay for the rest of us when they don't have to.

When the NMW goes up this then narrows the gap between the people on NMW and the next level up. And the one above that. And so it goes on.
Semi skilled workers in the construction industry, supervisors in the hospitality industry etc. So that pushes their wages up too. So the wage bill for every company goes up far more than the increase in NMW.
So the prices go up. The money has to come from somewhere.

The thing to watch is employment especially for young people. There’s already threads on some finding it very hard to get work. If that increases that’ll be tough.

My husband is in hospitality (independent business running a few venues, currently only 1 is profitable as it is and they are on their bare bones in the rest) he is in charge of finance and this now means working many many hours more to work out how this will work out, hard decisions for the venues and eventually if the venues have to close he'll be out of a job.

So many posters on here are so far out of touch of the real world its unreal, I have a pretty secure public sector role so I'm ok but obviously its not about individuals its the wider picture, clearly many people are just cushy in their job in big companies and give no thought to the knock on effect. Its certainly nothing to do with businesses wanting to pay shit wages (well most of them anyway)

Well small businesses and new businesses won’t be able to absorb it will they. PP obviously think they shouldn’t be in business then - personally I’d rather not see a world where the only businesses that exist are massive faceless ones.
my DP and I both work in agriculture; last year his company made a lot of staff redundant and the same will follow with this. My company too, especially with the pressure on the agri sector at the moment. It’s a really worrying time for us and a huge amount of people we know.

Increase tax free allowance?

But if the businesses fold, the benefit bill will be larger, to now support the unemployed people.

Or people with mortgages etc, who don’t get all the help, will be put in a dire situation.

In theory it’s great , if the reality is businesses stop employing then it really isn’t great and will increase unemployment levels .

So what would you do to create jobs for those working at companies that are not viable and close?
I have asked a very straight question and you have dodged it.

Good for who? The government raises the NMW, but they are not the ones actually paying for it (excluding public sector on NMW of course).
Not everyone is employed by a multinational company that makes £millions and has shareholders.

DM has cleaning company that she has been running for over 25 years. She is on a little more than £30k and she owns and runs her company by herself. She is the only full time employee, as cleaning jobs, unless in a hospital or hotel, are rarely full time. So a most of her employees get UC top ups.
The rate she pays people is also dictated by the contracts she has. If you work in an office, chances are the cleaner who wipes your desk, empties your bin, and hoovers everywhere is on NMW. If my DM is to pay her cleaners more, then it would your boss that needs to pay her company more for the contract. But then, would you be happy to learn the office cleaner is on the same wage as you?

The smaller companies (and probably bigger ones too) will either lay people off, reduce hours, and not take on more workers.

This is going to hit the catering/leisure trade big time. 8% increase to pay students.
The only way to pay it is to put prices up.

There are a lot of companies teetering on the edge of viability. Absolutely people should be paid a fair wage, but some companies will go to the wall.

I know what you mean. I've also seen the stress, the mental and physical toll, the 5am starts, the work calls on Christmas day, the effort of getting into Oxbridge as a second gen immigrant. The 'must be nice' crowd who didn't put in any of this work but feel entitled to take from these people make me so angry.

This is my main issue

Think about how many of the big big retail employers for example are still making huge profits (obv gotta please the shareholders) but at the same time think of many of their (not paid what they could be) staff are still having to claim UC etc despite working full time.

I'm.not saying we are ever going to go back to where one full time wage would support a family but I do feel 2x full wage such be able to afford the basic in life without being topped up by the taxpayer cos companies don't want to pay a living wage

Most people aren’t against this at all and many of us who became adults in easier times now have young adult children that we’re worried about. It’s just that raising the minimum wage won’t achieve this at all. The Chancellor will know this but it gives her an easy win.

The cost will be put straight onto the consumer and prices go up - as we saw with the NI increase. People simply will not have more money in their pockets in the long term, or the medium term or medium short term. And price increases disproportionately affect those people that raising the minimum wage is supposed to help. And it’s been pointed out here many many times that increasing employment costs reduces available employment in so many ways.

There’s loads of other ways it doesn’t help. For example, it also doesn’t help with things like housing at the cheaper end of the market because all of a sudden everyone in minimum wage jobs has a bit more money as their base and so landlords, who can already rent out their properties several times over, also put their prices up - as long as demand outstrips supply which is does in most of the UK.

We are in an inflationary cycle and raising the minimum wage doesn’t even go a tiny bit towards helping it end. It needs some transformational economic thinking not fiddling around the edges.

I can know that but also think many many people in low paid jobs work bloody hard, are very valuable and deserve more.

Yes i think grow up is appropriate.
I find it hard to believe that anyone with any experience of life could see things in such a simplistic way.
And they have still yet to enlighten us where the new jobs might come from

Nobody yet has said where all the people who work for businesses which apparently don't deserve to exist will find work? Maybe you might enlighten me?

I guarantee you would be the first to complain when a small business you use decides to close its doors. You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder - maybe it's time to grow up.

I kind of agree, it is lucky that some people have the brains/talent to do certain jobs. I mean I could work harder than anyone ever has and I still won't be a professional tennis player. My DD has various learning difficulties so will never be able to do certain jobs, in fact only likely to be able to do unskilled minimum wage roles. Thats not due to hard work.

However those who do choose to get those quals should get paid more and 100% deserve to. There shouldn't be a situation where the gap is so close it becomes not worth bothering. Childcare settings are a prime example where this is relevant. The qualified staff L2 or 3 are only able to be paid fractionally above the unqualified assistants, same for the managers above the L3 staff. The government pay such a poor hourly rate for the 'free' childcare hours it is often a massive struggle to keep heads above water, it only takes one term of low numbers to switch from the black to red.

I agree with this. I've been with DH since the start. Seen the tremendous hard word he's put in. Came from absolutely nothing. My DC look up to him a lot.

Like nurses and carers?

It's not luck, though, is it. This is the thought process I can't stand. People who earn more have had to work, train, compete, and put in the hours. It's not just 'luck' to get a better paying job.

I dont think its me who has no clue! I am talking about unskilled unqualified workers but I think you know that as I clearly stated it. Skilled workers should be paid for their skills accordingly. I have worked with small businesses for many years and know exactly what I'm talking about so not willing to have this debate.

People need to look at the wider implications.