Is this now normal 8/9 year old girl behaviour?

My oldest has had some properly brutal nastiness from one girl as early as year 1. She seemed to manage to mainly avoid this girl through year 2 and 3. Year 4 was pretty horrific though. I was grateful this girl was moved to the other class at the end of year 4. I was hoping for a much more happy and relaxed time now my daughter's in year 5. Unfortunately over the summer it seems that every other girls turned into a nasty kid. It's awful, if it wasn't for the fact my daughter has her best friend there I would be moving her to a different school.

I think it's group dependent. I have 2DD. DD1s class started this in Y4- luckily my DD refused to get involved and made it through with friendships intact. DD2s class (same school) didn't start with this until Y7/8. She was less successful at avoiding it but has a nice nuclear friend group now. Their school worked very hard with the girls to avoid the worst behaviours. And skincare is huge and expensive and completely unnecessary.

Mine is now in year 11 and there were some really spiteful witches in juniour school, mothers were the same.

Girls were like this when I went to primary school. It was just those 50p make up sets you’d get from the newsagents though

My daughter got very into make-up, nails etc in year 4/5. She had no social media so no idea where it came from. Then Y6/7 more obsessed with beauty products, crop or fitted tops have made an appearance.
she’s definitely not a mean girl and avoids drama but Y6 did seem to be the worst year in terms of friendship resets due to girls being into different things - some into make up, some had phones and Snapchat etc.
it seems better now that she’s at secondary - lots of the girls (and boys) at her new school not allowed smartphones etc and more into sport although she’s still skincare obsessed.

my youngest daughters class on the other hand nave had mean girl behaviour and drama since probably year 2/3!! I thin often it depends on the personalities and dynamics in the class.

I used to help out at a primary school years and years ago and year 4 girls were a pain back then. I remember it when I was at school too. Not the skincare back then, but the nastiness, leaving people out, friendships chopping and changing by the day or hour.
When my daughter was that age she didn't hang out with the girls because, she said, they were too much drama. Her friends were mostly boys.

I think it can be for some but not all. When my eldest was that age there was one particular girl in her class who was an absolute demon for shit like this. She never really changed but the girls in the class changed how they dealt with her as they got older. I think that’s far more effective. My daughter and I had a LOT of bedtime chats about how she could manage it over the years.

I spent a day with y4 girls on a school trip this week and they were all so lovely. Really sweet and still very much acting like kids rather than pre-teens. Make up is unheard of in school, very few have pierced ears or ‘label’ clothing etc. I don’t know if it’s your school/area or mine that is the anomaly.

My dd is year 11 now, but the skincare thing wasn’t a thing at all when she was at primary school. Makeup, crop tops etc didn’t really hit till secondary school. There were always mean girls, all the way through, but dd just gave them a wide berth. Drama seemed to peak in year 6, but it tended to be just amongst the mean girl crowd so was easily avoided by those who had no time for it.

Luckily I have a boy but was speaking to a girl mum on the walk home today and there is always some drama. The girls are awful. I don’t remember girls being like that when I was at school. Same years group as you OP, I’m not sure how the parents cope with the weekly falling out, name calling, splitting of groups and manipulating

My theory: Sadly they're learning early that drama gets the attention and they become addicted to the attention as without it in social media terms you "don't exist"?

I'm sorry this is so sad and horrible, it goes to show how direct marketing and media aimed at making us all feel self conscious about our looks is filtering to younger and younger ages. It's not exclusive to women of course. It's a sign of the times, a kind of hyper Capitalism affecting large sections of society so in this way, I feel it is commonplace, therefore normal now, and it just might be worse when kids have free and easy access to TikTok and the TV is on a lot at home. I saw a reel of a 27 year old on a talk show recently - she'd had a facelift. Twenty-seven. If kids start to think skin care obsession and beauty aesthetics are normal, then thats what they'll become. They're just absorbing the hype of advertising and women in the public eye.

This is such a useful insight

Yeah, my DD experienced this. I think the school is sent her to was part of the problem also.

My DD had a difficult Y4 with some unkind classmates (boys and girls). It didn’t get any better in Y5 and we moved her to a different school for Y6. Game changing - her new classmates were lovely. My other DD (now in Y8) absorbs the skincare/Sephora chat, but is able to take it all lightly. I don’t think the chat you describe is normal for Y4 girls - it’s far more for older girls

Mum of 8 year old girl in Y4. Not sure about make up but definitely seem nastier to each other than when I was a kid, boys as well - we just had to have words with the teacher as a boy in her class called her a pig and threw mud at her yday!!!

Are kids getting their brows done at 9? 😳

It all totally depends on the group of kids. I've taught year 5 for over 10 years. There's always a 'cool crew' who shape the ethos of the class. Sometimes the cool crew are all about being kind, inclusive, trying their best etc. and are very naive as in, believe in santa, toothfairy (this mostly happens when the class is predominantly made up of eldest children).
Sometimes it goes the other way; children who are cool because they know more about adult things and use this to flex their social muscles. Others are then uncool if they don't have a clue about these things. Examples: momo, squid game, expensive American bloomingdale lunch bags, Instagram etc.
It's not about the school, it's about the dominant characters in the class and the values they have.

That is definitely not normal.

Dd's friends are more into the 90's skater grunge aesthetic, are impeccably polite when they come round and none of them bother with makeup/skincare except spf.

My eldest DD’s class was like that end of Y5/Y6 it was awful and emotionally scarred her. Youngest DD is in Y4 but currently one of the boys so I’m hoping we might escape it more. TBH this class seems to have more of an issue with the boys than the girls but in other DD class it was definitely a girl issue the boys still get on now.

My sil is experiencing this with her daughter in that year. Teacher has had to have parents in to chat to them about it as it’s got so bad and she said this type of behaviour is common with the older girls but they are young for it. My daughter is in the year below and I’ve noticed she’s saying that some of the girls aren’t being nice but mostly it’s been ok. A lot of them play Roblox after school and at school the fights seem to be about dances they’ve made up.

Doesn't seem to be true of DD's Year 5 village primary class. She sometimes complains that other parents let their kids do/have certain things she wants (a LOL doll; we then bought her one; travelling in the car without a booster- we said no). But it's an exceptionally nice and non-cliquey class.

Yes I work in a small, rural primary school and we have had cohorts of girls like this. Not all.
6/7 is going around and now been banned as disrupting maths. 🙄

I wonder if you're in a town/city.... Our village primary doesn't have those issues. The odd girl in yr 6 might have some kid friendly skincare they brag about and they all have lib balm in their bag (so does dd or her lips chap) but not gloss. The year 3s and 4s are quite sweet and naive in our school, plus most parents here dont allow crop tops for that age (i wont buy them for dd). Girls can be a bit more keen to have a "best friend" and they do a bit of arguing/falling out/making up/in groups and out groups but it feels quite experimental, we havent had anything truly nasty or anything i would call bullying, certainly no sneering and no mobile phones here (again maybe a couple in year 6 but not before). My DS moved to a school in town for year 5 (long and irrelevant story) he's come home with 6-7 and that kind of thing, which they don't seem to be into in the small village school, it seems just a bit more grown up and worldly.

You want Women supporting each other and then post...

"Made me very pleased I didn't have girls"

If we want girls to support each other maybe older generations should lead by example and support them by not resorting to the girls are bitchy stereotype because your boys said so.