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To think my mum has fallen down a conspiracy rabbit hole and I can't get her out

422 replies

Coffeesoon · 25/11/2025 17:54

My mum has just sent me a video of Ant Middleton explaining how in 2027 the migrants / boat people who are seeking asylum and have already been made legal, will kick off and attack us all.
He says there will be a civil war, he knows because of army contacts and that we need to prepare.
What am I suppose to say to that?
She fully believes that an army is being formed and is constantly telling me or sending me videos about it.
I love my mum but since covid, which she thought wasn't real, she has been thinking the government is out to get us. We live in an area of increased immigrants and she absolutely hates them.
I've tried to talk to her but shes adamant and its really getting me down.

OP posts:
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7
Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:41

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:38

Still waiting for you to stop with the ad-homs, actually, but nice try.

Still waiting to see your expertise.

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:40

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:37

Yes, I know what the thread is about. So which exactly are the particular "total horseshit" views being spread you wish to discuss and refute? Lots of views have been given across this thread, and seem from what I'm seeing to have varying opinions, rather than a single monolithic perspective. So if you could focus on what "total horseshit" claims have been made (or you think have been made) instead of broad-sweeping it, it is likely to be more productive.

Look at the posts I have replied to. I'm not summarising again.

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:39

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:34

Thought that be the case. Thanks, amused me no end.
All bite, no substance.

Sorry apologies, not for you my post.

Birthdaysocks · 25/11/2025 23:39

Mlddleoftheroad · 25/11/2025 23:34

It's interesting that because I don't subscribe to the all immigrants are rapists, murderers and part of an army come to attack the country, that you see me as leftist. You missed looney by the way.
You have ascribed me to a group of people with little to no information about me, and voiced your (incorrect) assumption as fact.

You have made a judgement with no evidence. That says an awful lot to me about your questioning and reasoning skills.

You also ascribed the word hate to voting intentions. I would say this this is your bias, not fact. You may have cast your vote in hatred, I haven't met anyone else who had that feeling about the process, and I would caution against espousing your feelings as fact.

You posted a sky news article describing bad actors driving right wing anti immigrant sentiment.

That was definitely a left wing posting decision you made. Feel free to deny it.

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:38

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:33

The rest of the post and the points made.
And by the way, snark, yes. Not done bad yourself on that front, as well as a hell of a lot of lording it over in a self-important manner and zoning in on pedantry. Amusingly, you're not as good at conversing as you think you are.

Still waiting for you to show us how it's done, being a fellow 'lefty' and all.

Still waiting for you to stop with the ad-homs, actually, but nice try.

SnoopyPajamas · 25/11/2025 23:38

Coffeesoon · 25/11/2025 18:39

@Dollymylove I agree that the current system isnt working, but I dont think they are being put here to create an army and take over.

I think you need to lean on that point of connection. That the system isn't working.

I know it's difficult, but this is your own mother. All the people advising you cut her off or sneer at her every time she "starts", don't have a personal relationship with her. The only way to bring her back from the edge of going full conspiracy theory, is not to back her into a corner where it becomes a point of pride not to ever change her mind. You need to do the opposite. Keep the door open. And that starts with making her feel heard.

She's fixated on this because she's frustrated by the current state of the country and scared for the future. And she's not wrong to feel like that. Instead of challenging her at every turn, and making her feel judged, try to keep things neutral. Validate the basic concerns she has, but stay quite calm and indifferent to anything really out there she might come out with.

"I'm not sure about that", "I've heard a few different perspectives on that, I'm still working out what I think about it". That's how you want to be. Not telling her she's stupid or pushing her into any strong emotional reaction. And not patronising her like she's a child, because she will pick up on that. You want to create a space where she can explore ideas, but she can also change her mind. If you play it right, she might drop some of the more fringe conspiracies of her own accord.

If you can find voices who are a bit more nuanced and calm in their delivery, maybe steer her to them, and away from shock jock, algorithm-chasing content. And try to get her into something else, if you can. A lot of this is probably boredom. Does she have any hobbies she's let fall by the wayside a bit? You want to break her out of the fear loop she's stuck in and put some more positivity back in her life.

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:37

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:30

This thread is about a conspiracy theorist, and the posters I am taking umbrage with are the ones passionately spreading total horseshit - or defending the spreading of it - without being remotely interested in facts, while posturing that they are the rigorous intellects because they will consider any and every view, without applying any critical lens to its source.

If they would just - please - check some facts at source of data, there wouldn't be a problem with anyone holding anti-immigration views, because you could have a sensible conversation without the layer of open racism, wilful misunderstanding of facts, and emotional response to information that challenges their views.

I don't need to 'persuade' anyone else. I have no problem with anyone holding anti-immigration views based on robust evidence, or even personal experience. I'm not God - they can believe what they want.

I have a MASSIVE problem with the shit that's been posted on this thread tonight, because it's setting the tone of the conversation in the gutter.

We DO need to have honest conversations about immigration.

It won't happen until we all agree to be honest.

Yes, I know what the thread is about. So which exactly are the particular "total horseshit" views being spread you wish to discuss and refute? Lots of views have been given across this thread, and seem from what I'm seeing to have varying opinions, rather than a single monolithic perspective. So if you could focus on what "total horseshit" claims have been made (or you think have been made) instead of broad-sweeping it, it is likely to be more productive.

Mlddleoftheroad · 25/11/2025 23:36

wrongthinker · 25/11/2025 23:32

As I recall (without scrolling back for pages) she said that she understood that there are different ways of identifying rape in different countries, but it was nonetheless a frightening statistic that shows an increase in rapes in the UK. It doesn't exactly put your mind at ease to consider that we're not the worst in the world, we're only the worst among the countries that are actually counting. And it doesn't take away from the point that there's a correlation with increased immigration into the UK (from countries who don't count rape as rape so much as we do.)

That is absolutely NOT what the poster said, and is misleading and an example of misinformation.

wrongthinker · 25/11/2025 23:34

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:33

The rest of the post and the points made.
And by the way, snark, yes. Not done bad yourself on that front, as well as a hell of a lot of lording it over in a self-important manner and zoning in on pedantry. Amusingly, you're not as good at conversing as you think you are.

Still waiting for you to show us how it's done, being a fellow 'lefty' and all.

You haven't made any points.

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:34

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:30

This thread is about a conspiracy theorist, and the posters I am taking umbrage with are the ones passionately spreading total horseshit - or defending the spreading of it - without being remotely interested in facts, while posturing that they are the rigorous intellects because they will consider any and every view, without applying any critical lens to its source.

If they would just - please - check some facts at source of data, there wouldn't be a problem with anyone holding anti-immigration views, because you could have a sensible conversation without the layer of open racism, wilful misunderstanding of facts, and emotional response to information that challenges their views.

I don't need to 'persuade' anyone else. I have no problem with anyone holding anti-immigration views based on robust evidence, or even personal experience. I'm not God - they can believe what they want.

I have a MASSIVE problem with the shit that's been posted on this thread tonight, because it's setting the tone of the conversation in the gutter.

We DO need to have honest conversations about immigration.

It won't happen until we all agree to be honest.

Thought that be the case. Thanks, amused me no end.
All bite, no substance.

Mlddleoftheroad · 25/11/2025 23:34

Birthdaysocks · 25/11/2025 23:24

I would say the split on the EU vote at almost 50: 50 and the conservative/reform who are on the side of leaving the EHRC versus lab/lib/greens who are pro more immigration, split in polling at 50 50, and this is definitely a country of two halves.

And look at these threads. There's no common ground at all. Even within families. They devolve into insults every time. Contempt and vilification.

You call half the voters "a few voices backed up by people outside the UK"

Strange that "voices" outside the UK are the problem but the second any "voice" arrives here there's no evidence they are unsafe.

There is no consistency in the left's arguments.

It's interesting that because I don't subscribe to the all immigrants are rapists, murderers and part of an army come to attack the country, that you see me as leftist. You missed looney by the way.
You have ascribed me to a group of people with little to no information about me, and voiced your (incorrect) assumption as fact.

You have made a judgement with no evidence. That says an awful lot to me about your questioning and reasoning skills.

You also ascribed the word hate to voting intentions. I would say this this is your bias, not fact. You may have cast your vote in hatred, I haven't met anyone else who had that feeling about the process, and I would caution against espousing your feelings as fact.

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:33

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:29

Uh-huh. What am I 'ignoring' exactly, oh great one? The topic is methods of arguing. All you've done is post snark.

The rest of the post and the points made.
And by the way, snark, yes. Not done bad yourself on that front, as well as a hell of a lot of lording it over in a self-important manner and zoning in on pedantry. Amusingly, you're not as good at conversing as you think you are.

Still waiting for you to show us how it's done, being a fellow 'lefty' and all.

wrongthinker · 25/11/2025 23:32

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:22

I've no idea. Nevertheless, the poster didn't say, 'Oh thank goodness. It would be awful to live in the rape capital of the world - thank you for pointing out that this dataset shouldn't be used in this way. I'll sleep better now - in fact, it's reassuring that women have greater protections in the UK against a broader range of rape incidents'.

She responded with snark, presumably because she'd rather believe the lie - comforting, because people just do not like being presented with evidence that runs counter to their biases. We don't LIKE being cognitively challenged. And when we're really angry and passionate about something, when it's become part of our core belief system, we are comforted by information that reinforces it, and confronted by evidence that runs counter to it.

As I recall (without scrolling back for pages) she said that she understood that there are different ways of identifying rape in different countries, but it was nonetheless a frightening statistic that shows an increase in rapes in the UK. It doesn't exactly put your mind at ease to consider that we're not the worst in the world, we're only the worst among the countries that are actually counting. And it doesn't take away from the point that there's a correlation with increased immigration into the UK (from countries who don't count rape as rape so much as we do.)

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:30

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:21

You seem to have a fixed view that there's this single monolith of "people with anti-immigration views" but there are several viewpoints on this that may fit your criteria for this, only some of which may conform to the stereotype you're positing. The same is true of multiple issues in society.

For example, yes, there are indeed a great many people in our society who are basically just racist and will jump gleefully on the 'immigration' issue because of that. They were there back in the NF days, they morphed to the BNP and the EDL. I grew up in an area that had a lot of that.

But not everyone who talks about the issue of immigration as it is now is going to be one of that group. So how would you persuade THOSE people who aren't? As I don't think you can assume that they are 'just blinded by feelings' in the same way as the above groups as you claim. Are you claiming they secretly are so you can just ignore them?

This thread is about a conspiracy theorist, and the posters I am taking umbrage with are the ones passionately spreading total horseshit - or defending the spreading of it - without being remotely interested in facts, while posturing that they are the rigorous intellects because they will consider any and every view, without applying any critical lens to its source.

If they would just - please - check some facts at source of data, there wouldn't be a problem with anyone holding anti-immigration views, because you could have a sensible conversation without the layer of open racism, wilful misunderstanding of facts, and emotional response to information that challenges their views.

I don't need to 'persuade' anyone else. I have no problem with anyone holding anti-immigration views based on robust evidence, or even personal experience. I'm not God - they can believe what they want.

I have a MASSIVE problem with the shit that's been posted on this thread tonight, because it's setting the tone of the conversation in the gutter.

We DO need to have honest conversations about immigration.

It won't happen until we all agree to be honest.

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:29

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:26

And everything else ignored, instead zoning in on pedantry.

Thought as much. Come on, 'expert', show us how it's done.

Uh-huh. What am I 'ignoring' exactly, oh great one? The topic is methods of arguing. All you've done is post snark.

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:26

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:24

"Thinking properly"?

Why are you assuming that you are the only person who has the capability of doing this? Fucking hell. You are a massive part of the problem. You are NOT helping.

And everything else ignored, instead zoning in on pedantry.

Thought as much. Come on, 'expert', show us how it's done.

PoppyRoseBucky · 25/11/2025 23:25

Gonesocoldsosuddenly · 25/11/2025 23:17

What do you mean?

Iran and Afghanistan were not always Islamic countries.

Iran was once a very progressive country. In 1979, the Left, who seemed, from what I've read, had sympathies with communism and wanted to overthrow the regime at the time, so they allied themselves with the Islamists who desired the same goal.

It is now called the "Unholy Alliance."

In 1979, the alliance was successful at overthrowing the regime and installed the Islamic Ayatollah. Once that happened, the mask slipped from the Islamists as they had no use for their useful idiots any longer and they made, how you say, quick work of their "allies."

And that is a brief rundown of how Iran got itself into the state that it is today and is actually what the book "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood is based on.

The more you know.

Birthdaysocks · 25/11/2025 23:24

Mlddleoftheroad · 25/11/2025 23:11

Half the country doesn't hate the other half.

A few loud voices backed by people outside of the UK (evidenced on X by the recent update) are stirring up a tiny minority of the country.

There is little to join chance of civil war in the UK at the moment.

What war in the UK are you referring to?

I would say the split on the EU vote at almost 50: 50 and the conservative/reform who are on the side of leaving the EHRC versus lab/lib/greens who are pro more immigration, split in polling at 50 50, and this is definitely a country of two halves.

And look at these threads. There's no common ground at all. Even within families. They devolve into insults every time. Contempt and vilification.

You call half the voters "a few voices backed up by people outside the UK"

Strange that "voices" outside the UK are the problem but the second any "voice" arrives here there's no evidence they are unsafe.

There is no consistency in the left's arguments.

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:24

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:09

Why not say 'Sigh'? It's the same tripe I am hearing over and over again and am tired of trying to encourage people into thinking properly. Done it many a time, I presume that's also wrong in your book?

Anyone could see the post I responded 'sigh' to was made by a person who has no interest in ever looking at anything in a critical, factual, reasoned manner and the subsequent posts by the same person has cemented that view.

I have yet to see one single person in the last few years who hold these generalised views of all migrants even remotely interested in seeing facts (facts are truths) and being more considerate and critical in their thinking. One thing I learned at a young age. You cannot change people, only the way you react to them and sometimes a 'sigh' is just what it deserves.

Edited

"Thinking properly"?

Why are you assuming that you are the only person who has the capability of doing this? Fucking hell. You are a massive part of the problem. You are NOT helping.

wrongthinker · 25/11/2025 23:23

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:12

There's absolutely zero point in responding with evidence. Those with anti-immigration views do NOT want facts getting in the way of their feelings.

I shared a link earlier that fact checks the claim that the UK is now the rape capital of the world. The authors of the data explicitly say it shouldn't be used in that way.

Zero fucks given by the poster that posted it. A comforting lie - one that reinforces your prejudices and belief system - is better than an uncomfortable truth .

Wow, that's cynical. So the truth doesn't matter to you? You don't think there's any point in evidence?

Sure, maybe the poster you're responding to isn't interested. But haven't you ever understood that one of the points of debate is not to convince your opposition, but to get closer to the actual truth? And another point is to connect with people in the audience - readers, listeners - who may be more open to changing their minds?

I'm surprised that someone so 'intellectual' and with such unprecedented access to the truth is unaware of the importance of sharing and understanding facts and evidence, of being able to make convincing arguments backed up with evidence, and of having respect for your opposition.

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:22

Birthdaysocks · 25/11/2025 23:13

How is rape a comforting lie?

I've no idea. Nevertheless, the poster didn't say, 'Oh thank goodness. It would be awful to live in the rape capital of the world - thank you for pointing out that this dataset shouldn't be used in this way. I'll sleep better now - in fact, it's reassuring that women have greater protections in the UK against a broader range of rape incidents'.

She responded with snark, presumably because she'd rather believe the lie - comforting, because people just do not like being presented with evidence that runs counter to their biases. We don't LIKE being cognitively challenged. And when we're really angry and passionate about something, when it's become part of our core belief system, we are comforted by information that reinforces it, and confronted by evidence that runs counter to it.

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:21

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:12

There's absolutely zero point in responding with evidence. Those with anti-immigration views do NOT want facts getting in the way of their feelings.

I shared a link earlier that fact checks the claim that the UK is now the rape capital of the world. The authors of the data explicitly say it shouldn't be used in that way.

Zero fucks given by the poster that posted it. A comforting lie - one that reinforces your prejudices and belief system - is better than an uncomfortable truth .

You seem to have a fixed view that there's this single monolith of "people with anti-immigration views" but there are several viewpoints on this that may fit your criteria for this, only some of which may conform to the stereotype you're positing. The same is true of multiple issues in society.

For example, yes, there are indeed a great many people in our society who are basically just racist and will jump gleefully on the 'immigration' issue because of that. They were there back in the NF days, they morphed to the BNP and the EDL. I grew up in an area that had a lot of that.

But not everyone who talks about the issue of immigration as it is now is going to be one of that group. So how would you persuade THOSE people who aren't? As I don't think you can assume that they are 'just blinded by feelings' in the same way as the above groups as you claim. Are you claiming they secretly are so you can just ignore them?

Happyjoe · 25/11/2025 23:21

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:08

Thank you. This method of 'arguing' (without arguments, evidence and with false accusations and what look very much like ad homs) is indeed extremely tiresome.

Meanwhile, no problems are resolved in reality. Nobody comes together or discusses ingood faith. Every member of every tribe pats themselves on the back about how 'clever' they are in offing the opposition but doesn't put forward any solutions or engage beyond "just tell them they're stupid.'

History is full of this shit. It never turns out well.

And yet as a self-described leftie, are you going to be putting some reasoned factual points to the clearly incorrect views on immigration etc on here?

I am truly interested because a, I'd like to see your points argued in the expert manner you seem to paint yourself and b, I would very much like to see if your views are listened to at all.

Be interesting if you say 'sigh' at the end of it.

Bloozie · 25/11/2025 23:19

hihelenhi · 25/11/2025 23:13

Not "my" prejudices, ta. Where are you getting what my views are?

I was referring to the poster I responded to's prejudices when I said that, not you.

ABeerInTheSunshineMakesMeHappy · 25/11/2025 23:18

Idontknowhatnametochoose · 25/11/2025 18:16

Covid seems to hsve messed with a lot of people's perception of reality. I lost a previously very good and well grounded friend because she went down a similar rabbit hole and decided I wasn't safe to be around as I got vaccinated. She also thought covid was fake and the government were out to destroy us. I think she believed that vaccinated people would be dead within ten years. Sadly she has passed away now...not from covid i might add, so she won't live to see how things pan out.

I think lockdown was a massive thing in turning people over to conspiracy theories . All that time spent alone with the internet for company, and not understanding the way algorithms work. I don’t know what the answer is to get people back to the real world though, especially if they are older and don’t get out much.

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