How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

It's been illegal in Germany since 1992 or something. Honestly it's weird and outdated. I live in Germany and nobody hits children. There isn't a euphemism like "smacking" either, the word used (Schlagen) translates to hitting or beating.

Even shouting at children is seen as unnecessarily harsh here. They rarely even use time out. Grandfather is simply a nasty bully. Don't put this down to cultural differences.

In fact if he doesn’t say yes, then I wouldn’t even let him see the child.

This. Op, you’re going to have to be the steely, hard bitch here to protect your dcs.

Your oh is a pathetic specimen.

Your fil likes hitting kids.

I don’t think you have a choice but to step up in this way.

Your partner says its up to you to tell his Dad and that he doesn't see anything wrong with smacking? You have a bigger problem here, your partner. Are you certain your partner isn't also going to revert to smacking as this is they way he was raised and doesn't see a problem with it?

You don't really have a lot of leverage to be laying down the law unfortunately. If you were to split up, your child's father could leave your child alone with his dad and there would be nothing you could do about it (obviously unless something had already happened and there was police or SS involvement - although I don't know how this would play out either across two countries).

Totally mad decision to have a baby with a wet blanket whose father you already knew was abusive to grandchildren, especially with the international element. But you're here now, living the entirely predictable reality that you chose. I think all you can do is hope that your relationship doesn't break down at any point and make sure that you are always present when there's contact with the grandfather.

Wait till FIL makes a mistake and wallop him S hard as you can then claim you were teaching him. Your biggest problem is your partner. You’ve had a baby with someone who thinks it’s ok to hit children, and who is never going to stand up to your FIL.

Poor girls ☹️ they are being abused and no one is stopping it happening

It definitely does not work that way in reality! I speak from experience…
As for your partner’s father, all you can do is not ever leave your child unsupervised with him. It sounds like he wouldn’t listen to you or his son anyway, so to pre-empt any problems don’t ever leave him alone with your child.

No contact with GP on basis he’s vile overbearing bully

I'm another child of the 1960s and was smacked by my parents. But never ever by any other family members, including GPs. It's your job to train your children, not his, regardless of the rights and wrongs of it.

On the first visit with a babe in arms, look the grandfather in the eyes and say in German (it's an easy language to speak)

"I know you discipline children by hitting them. The world has moved on since your day. If you ever hit this child you will never see her again. Do you understand? "

And keep repeating "do you understand" until he says "ja".

And if he won't, don't leave her for a second in his company, take her to the loo with you until she's old enough to call him out on it herself, even if that's 15.

DH and I were born in the 60s when smacking was normal. Despite that, our parents have never laid a finger on our DC. Neither were we ever smacked by our DGPs.

Your first task is to confront your DH and tell him exactly what will happen if your FIL smacks your DC. Be clear, calm and very firm. Mine would have been told that all hell would have broken loose if my FIL hit my child.

I believe smacking is illegal in Germany.

Your husband has to be the one who speaks to his father but really shoddy behaviour that he’s leaving it up to you. He is the father of your child and if he can’t support you on such a big aspect of your child’s wellbeing, how will he protect her in the future against potential harm/ threats?

Your FIL is a narcissist. He stopped talking to your sister in law because she dared speak up against him. What grandparent smacks their child? Thats down to the parents. Grandparents are usually the ones that “spoil” them.

Your husband is scared of his father. You will have to be the bad guy here and tell him that there will be no smacking of your child.

Imagine being so desperate to able to hit your small grandchildren, that you would stop talking to your adult child for a year!!!

That's fucking bizarre.

No way on this earth would I be allowing my child to be alone with this pathetic bully.

It will be pretty straightforward to keep the GF away from your child, or to only allow visits with you present. What is more concerning is the inability of your DP to stand up to his father in protecting his child (and SIL in protecting hers too). It strongly suggests that GF instilled such fear in them that he has cowed them for life and made them unable to contradict him. Perhaps DP needs to realise the impact that this had on him before he can truly protect your DC.

You need to find your absolute burning rage about this OP, and you need to verbally communicate this to him- very calmly but with absolute red hot steely conviction. Your poor sister in law tried, but she didn’t really mean it (evidenced by the fact she has given in and your nieces are being hit by him again). You make it clear- If you ever ONCE lay a single finger on our DD, you will never see her again. You might think I don’t really mean it- just watch me. There will be no second chances. She is not your child, you do not need to discipline her, that is our job. I am not going to say this again.

Or whatever works for you- have someone write it in German and practise it. You have to really mean it, and he has to know that, any sign of a people pleasing, apologetic, not really sure attitude will make him just think you’re scared of him and would never really follow through.

Your poor nieces. It will damage the relationship with their mother, knowing she gave in and sent them back to be hit again. The idea of him not talking to them for a year as a punishment is so ironic- sounds like a prize to me.

And I know there will be parts of him that are fun and kind and that the children may like him sometimes. That’s what often makes these things so hard, if he was just mean always if would be a lot easier to stay away, but you feel conflicted and think about all the good things they will miss. If someone hits a child, none of those good bits are worth it.

You sound strong and determined OP. Your husband’s fear of his father is evidence of why this approach is so damaging.

I think talk of leaving your husband (so bringing up your daughter without a father) to prevent something that hasn’t even happened is more than a step too far. That doesn’t make it ok for her to be hit by her grandfather though. Is the grandmother on the scene? If so, what is her view?

Maybe the fact that your SIL is his daughter I assume?) makes a difference. I would definitely be learning how to express myself in German - at least around this subject - and would be telling my husband in no uncertain terms that he needs to step up. I would also be having a conversation about how you discipline your children as a couple, as the fact that he doesn’t see anything wrong with hitting children is concerning.

Good luck.

This was my thoughts. The grandad won’t be an issue.

you need to speak to you DH about smacking the child.

Do the grandfather and nieces live in Germany? Because one way to stop him smacking is to have him arrested for hitting his granddaughters. Either that or you could send some large bloke round to slap him about. I think the first will be more affective though, it doesn't sound like he has any self awareness.

Why do you let your kids anywhere near him?! So what if he stops talking to you, his loss

My own mother smacked my son when he was 3. Hes 20 now.

We were going out for the day and I was driving, I couldn't believe it.

After that she never ever seen any of my dc without me being there.
I told her, if you put your hands on one of my dc again, you will never see them again.

He is in another country! It’s very simple - just decide you are never taking your child there. Dp can visit his parents alone. If they visit here, they can stay in a hotel, and you can limit the visits to lunch in a restaurant or a picnic in the park kn full public view. Or refuse to see him at all. You don’t owe him anything op.

You don’t need to tie yourself in knots op, or frantically learn German. You can take control by telling dp your decision, and why. Your child’s safety of paramount.

My mum smacked me and my brother as children in the 70s. I didn't leave my children alone with her for a day until they were 9 and 7 and it was when I really had no choice due to work. She smacked my 7 year old. She never looked after them again on their own. Ever.

You have to protect your child. Never leave her with her grandfather alone.

The problem here is your choice in men as a father .
So if he is happy with his dad smacking your child,that most probably means that is how he will discipline your child to .
I absolutely would leave in your situation..if he's not on the birth certificate even better

I think that I would address this really practically rather than emotionally.

Because they’re in a different country, there is no day-to-day risk, so that helps massively.

When you visit I would begin staying somewhere else rather than with them. That reduces the time together and allows you to leave any time dd is misbehaving to reduce the likelihood. Shorten the visits so that they’re more manageable - 3 or 4 days at a time rather than 10.

I would also try and avoid being there when she’s aged 2-4. That’s the prime age for tantrums etc which is often when people are likely to smack.

Id try and focus on some days out etc - my gut feeling is that this is less likely to happen on neutral territory than in his home.

Id make sure that she wasn’t out of my sight, even going as far as taking her to the loo with me, when he is present. And I’d remove her from him at the first sign of him trying to discipline even if he’s just saying “don’t do that”.

I do think that you need to improve your German enough that you feel confident discussing things in their language. But, until you get there, I would send both grandparents a written message, in German before each visit saying “I am just letting you know that we don’t smack dd. Please just let me know if she is being naughty, and don’t hit her”.