How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

OP, I speak German and have looked up a couple of good articles explaining that any form of physical punishment (incl. smacks, spanking etc) are illegal in Germany. The law changed in 2000.

I'd send them to the grandad and flat out say if you see him hit any child every again you're going to phone the police. Maybe send the links to your SIL as well while you're at it.

To be honest if the police came they'd probably just give the grandad a bit of a talking to rather than actually arrest him, but it might at least embarrass him into stopping.

https://www.juraforum.de/news/pruegelstrafe-erlaubt-duerfen-eltern-ihre-kinder-schlagen_247914

https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin/leben/ehe-familie/duerfen-eltern-ihrem-kind-einen-klaps-oder-eine-ohrfeige-geben

Sounds as though your DP doesn’t know any different because he was disciplined with a slap as a child, so you have two issues; a DP who doesn’t understand that the way he was raised now constitutes abuse and is absolutely unacceptable; and a ‘FiL’ who needs telling that it is now illegal and he will NOT be touching your child if he wants to continue seeing them.

You tell you DP what the law is and that he will be communicating it to your FiL - and/or, you use Google translate to write FiL a letter/text stating that regardless of what he thinks on the matter, he is not allowed to slap or physically chastise your child ever. And if he does so, he will not be allowed alone with her.

In fact: just text him this (courtesy of Google translate):Nur damit wir uns verstehen: Im Vereinigten Königreich ist es illegal, ein Kind körperlich zu züchtigen oder zu schlagen. Es ist mir egal, welche persönlichen Gefühle Sie dazu haben oder wie Sie die eine oder andere Ohrfeige genutzt haben, um Ihre eigenen Kinder zurechtzuweisen, als sie klein waren, aber Sie werden mein Kind nicht antasten, wenn Sie eine Beziehung mit ihm haben möchten. Ich hoffe, Sie verstehen das, denn wenn Sie mein Kind jemals schlagen, werden Sie es nie wieder sehen.I love google sometimes…

It seems from your post that they live in Germany, and are not Germans living in Britain (which accounts for not speaking English). They should know, then, that it is illegal in Germany to hit a child. Maybe learn enough German to say if you smack my child I will call the police.

repeating what others have said - you don’t leave the kids with him / you stay at all times

I would be keeping a close eye on DH and explain that it’s a divorce triggering event also

The very fact that your DH is such a wet blanket is proof that hitting children is bad for their self-esteem and confidence. Your DH, a grown adult, is scared of his dad. That is effed up.

YANBU. Does your SIL know he's smacking her children again, or does he only do it when she's not there? I'd mention it to her.

or little boys

Never let your child see them without you present. Never. But to be honest, I would be more worried about your dp’s approach to snacking-you need to find a way of protecting your child from him too.

It's not illegal in England. It is in Scotland and Wales though so if OP is in one of those places it's definitely illegal.

Your DH and FIL have made it clear that they do not agree with you and explicitly will not observe your rules.

So you have no choice but to never leave your Dc alone with this man or even closer to him than you.

His determination to hit small children sounds disturbing.

You use a translating app on your phone and make it clear that it is not your happen

i would also never ever leave the child there on its own

Ok, so looked it up and it seems it is illegal in Germany.

I wouldn't care if it was interfering. There are children here being abused. Who may then also grow up thinking this is OK. He may hit your own child. Report to the police (anonymously if you need to) and end the cycle

https://endcorporalpunishment.org/

Prohibition of corporal punishment
Home
Corporal punishment is prohibited in the home. In 2000, article 1631(2) of the Civil Code was amended
by the Act to Prohibit Violence in the Upbringing of the Child to state: “Children have the right to a non-
violent upbringing. Corporal punishment, psychological injuries and other humiliating measures are
prohibited.” German childcare law was amended to place a duty on authorities to “promote ways in
which families can resolve conflict without resort to force”. Article 16(1) of the Social Welfare Code Book

)on offences relating to bodily harm (arts. 223ff).

Sounds very much like the dad and gf have a relationship based on fear aswell. That's why dad wont say anything. GF also uses manipulation by not speaking to DIL. Toxic man. Can't see this ending well, sorry.

This is complicated by you being split across multiple countries.
Do you only ever see him in Germany? What's the law on hitting/smacking children there?

If it was here, I'd just call the police before it even happened. Report that he smacks the neices. It's not on, especially given a parent has explicitly told him not to.

Tbh, I think knowing he's likely to smack them you'd be complicit in this if you left her alone with him at any point.
Would you leave her alone with any unrelated person that was likely to smack her?

Good shout re counselling with your DH. Even if you start together to resolve the issue, then it's realised he needs individual counselling.

YABU for choosing to have a baby with a man who you know thinks hitting small children is appropriate. What were you thinking?

I wouldn’t ever leave DC in same room as GP without my presence.

If, and it’s a big if, a child is to be smacked then it should only be by the parent concerned, at the time and for something very serious. ie running out into the road after being told not to.

Never by others.

Looking back on our own parenting I think we saw the occasional slap as a mark of shortcomings, frustrations, lack of skills, weakness. Not something we were proud of, but it happened, almost always for something serious. Not something that I can really justify years on.

It can be hard to understand different parenting methods as a grandparent - ask my brother. He finds his daughters gentle parenting hard to fathom with an ever wayward 6 year old.

But there are lines in the sand, the parents say has to come first. If as a grandparent you disagree then discuss. (At the real end of the line there are social services and the police but that really is pressing the nuclear button.)

I think he needs to be told hard and often that his methods are not acceptable. And that there will be consequences.

It's illegal in Germany, so being German is no excuse. In 2000, the German Civil Code (§ 1631 BGB) was amended to state: "Children have the right to a non-violent upbringing. Corporal punishment, psychological injuries and other humiliating measures are prohibited".

When I was 10 & my brother just 2yrs old he touched our granddads tv. Granddad whacked him across the back with a garden cane. It happened so fast I couldn't prevent it.

Naturally he burst into tears & had a huge mark right across his back. Mum was upstairs so I picked him up & took him to her. I was so so angry & was shouting at her that she had to tell her Dad he wasn't allowed to do that.

She did nothing at all & that was the day I lost trust in her. She wasn't someone who would protect any of us against him. I can only assume she was too scared to do or say anything.

How to prevent? They don´t see them. That´s 100% foolproof.

Smack him back, the old twat!

Don’t allow him to be alone with your children, if you’re at all concerned about this.
Which i absolutely would, as well.
He needs to keep his hands to himself.

He sounds vile, and yea the outcome of a confrontation if he DID ever smack would be HIM cutting you all off. Is this emotional and physical abuser worth having in your life??

Your husband is the main issue however, he is your child's protector along with you, and he's the weak point. It's unreasonable that he's arguing FOR smacking, even when he has his innocent 4 month old before his eyes, he can see a future for her that she'd get a wallop from her grandad and that'd ok?

@Newparent101
Haven't read the thread yet, but my first thought is "where do you live?" because as I understand it, smacking a child is considered to be child abuse in the UK, and Germans are famous for rigidly sticking to the rules.
I would go along the logical route from this and tell your DH (who presumably speaks fluent German) that he needs to sit down with his parents and explain the legal position that if they hit your child not only could they be prosecuted but you might also come under scrutiny for leaving the child with someone who has a track record for "abuse". I know it sounds a bit far fetched, and the fact that you don't agree with it should be enough, but t since it obviously isn't..... Then explain that if he can't accept that this is the way things are in the 21st century, then his access to his DGC is going to be severely restricted.

Hi DP,

Either you and your father agree not to physically assault my child or I’m leaving you and neither of you will ever see him/her again.

Lots of love,

OP

Have you been present when your nieces have been hit? What did you do? Start stepping in now to protect them. That will show violent GF that you’re not going to stand for it. If he starts arguing with you, you leave.

Your DP sounds a massive problem. I’d be tempted to show him this thread. No one hits our children - ever. I can’t believe everyone is tip-toeing around the GF over this! It’s outrageous!

You know its a question of when not if... so just dont give him any unsupervised contact.

If for any reason either touch your child or yoyr nieces in your presence i'd very calmly give them a full belt in the face and ask how they like it.

Bastards.

Like others, I'm baffled as to why you choose to breed with this man.