How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

If there is violence towards a child you can report your dp to the social services, police and GP. That way should he ever be given visitation rights it would need to be supervised at a contact centre.

You can avoid that outcome by making it clear he can have counselling now, to prepare for more challenging days. He can research how to parent without violence (placing the child somewhere safe, and removing himself as a strategy etc)

Please don’t have any further dc until you know he can be completely trusted. You need to wait at least a few years. Do not impair your ability to protest your child.

But if the English law states that doing it's allowed if it's "reasonable punishment," would the teacher report it?

I don't know why England hasn't just banned it outright. Children need protection.

Don't be smug. How on earth would you know that this would be the case before you even got married?

Hi

i’m not sure you have seen the pp who have stated that smacking is illegal in Germany.

The reference is article 1631 (2) of the German Civil Code. This amendment was made back in November 2000, and states:
"Children have the right to a non-violent upbringing. Corporal punishment, psychological injuries and other humiliating measures are prohibited"
This is a translation of the German Civil Code. It appears on page 376.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.pdf

This study published by the Federal Ministry of Family Affairs and the Federal Ministry of Justice published in 2003 about knowledge and attitudes in 2001 might also be useful reading https://www.bmbfsfj.bund.de/resource/blob/93976/d9444e5db8a2b5536bdaf2ae1f599c7c/gewaltfreie-erziehung-bussmann-englisch-data.pdf
There are various things that you could pick out, but for a start

1. the first page is very clear about what punishments are prohibited 2)it states that there were public information campaigns and advertising when the reform was made (so it was widely publicised).

The above won’t change your FIL’s attitudes, but the ‘tiptoeing’ around him suggests that his children remain scared of him (the thing about smacking not teaching children right or wrong, but merely to be compliant because they fear the person who hit them). It may help you partner to see that it is wrong. Not only that, but it’s been illegal for 25 years!

I feel sorry for your SIL. She tried to do the right thing, and received further abusive behaviour from her father - this time psychological. Hopefully both siblings can come together and be consistent in this, for the good of all the children.

When the conversation with your FIL about never seeing him again if he hits your child is had, it should also be mentioned that it is illegal in his country.

I was smacked as a child, and I know it is wrong. My mother knew (from each of us siblings) that if she had ever raised a hand to one of the grandchildren, she would never see any of them again.

It would have been confusing and conflicting for your partner and his sister as they love their father and know he loves them…and yet he hit them. It was for me. I knew my mother loved me, but she still hit me. Maybe it’s OK to hit people as long as you love them? But then my brothers would get hit by her because they had a fight and hit each other and hitting people is wrong? I realised that she wasn’t hitting because she loved us but because she was angry and lost control on one occasion that I was hit because my sister was ‘naughty’, and then I was hit again with a second implement because the wooden spoon she used broke when she hit me with it. The second round of hitting made me question it all, as it wasn’t my fault that the spoon broke. That made me realise that it’s also a nonsense to say that the older children need to be punished for not making the younger one behave and that’s when I knew she was just lashing out at all of us as she was angry. It was the late 70s- early 80s, and even back then, I knew the behaviour wasn’t right, and that I couldn’t mention it to anyone in case they told their parents and we were ‘taken away’. It’s a very unsettling experience when the scales fall from your eyes like that as a child, and it does affect the relationship afterwards. I love my mother very much, but I lost some respect for her that day.

You’re worried about what will happen when you visit them in Germany. But the law is on your side. It’s also on your side in your other home in Spain where all physical discipline is also illegal. In England it’s illegal unless the parents consent (which you don’t).

To your partner: Tell your father that if he tries to hit our daughter, I’m calling the police, I don’t care what your sister allows.

To your father-in-law: Das Schlagen eines Kindes ist eine Straftat. (Or in England: Mein Kind ohne meine Zustimmung zu schlagen, ist eine Straftat.) Ich werde die Polizei rufen, falls jemand versucht, mein Kind zu schlagen.

That this man continues to hit his other grandchildren despite it being illegal in his country and despite their mother asking him not to is a red flag. It suggests he thinks the law doesn’t apply to him and that he doesn’t care about other people’s boundaries.

Well I wouldn’t have had a child or married someone who would let his parents smack his child as a starter but we are where we are.

do not leave your child unattended with this man. Lay the law down. First sign then the in laws are cut out.

It’s simple then to enforce a no smacking (hitting) rule by only seeing the grandparents in Germany or Spain because you have the law on your side. Hitting a child has been illegal in German since 2000. That’s a whole generation of kids, who should have been brought up violence free. And since 2007 in Spain, where those kids will now be adults too.

You can then tell your dp those are your terms for allowing contact with your child. And it’s not for you to talk to his dad. That’s his job because they’re his parents otherwise you will refuse any and all contact, supervised or otherwise.

You’ve just got to maintain that boundary fiercely to be the stronger voice to your dp. It’s illegal in those two countries and if his father lays a finger on your child, you personally will report him. No ifs. No buts. He’s scared of his dad by the sound of it. Show him a way to stand up to him.

I would leave the first conversation here and stuck record that conversation then walk away. And go at it again another day when he starts arguing again. This time so he gets the gravity of the situation you could tell him you know the law now and you are in your rights to report any violence you see to the police if you witness the grandfather laying a finger on the cousins again. Tell him if no one else cares enough about vulnerable children, you do. And enough to take the risk that it may rupture the relationship with his parents.

I would also put the boundary (not the bit about reporting the cousins) in an email to your dp (and keep that email safe) in case you split up as evidence that right now he cannot keep his children safe around his parents. Refusing to allow him to take your dc abroad to see his parents as minors may possibly be seen as spiteful by the courts.

The way to elicit change is to maintain a cast iron boundary that makes it harder to argue with you so that it is easier for him to enforce a boundary with his dad.

I would refuse to have anything to do with him. I couldn’t run the risk. You will be walking on eggshells waiting for the moment when this happens.

Maybe by refusing to see fil, he will offer complete reassurance thar he will never lay a hand on your child. I am not sure I would believe him.

Your dp is very weak and cowardly. I would worry he quietly agrees with his father, there is a lack of conviction on his part.

Your fil is an abuser that uses physical violence and the silent treatment as a way to control others.

Those poor children being openly physically and mentally abused in plain sight is truly awful op.

Just go completely no contact.

Keep your kids away from that child abuser. My mother was an abuser too. Regularly smacked myself and siblings. She was never left alone with any of my DC. My nephew was regularly babysat by her (my sister valued her nights out more than her kids) and was regularly hit. Ended up in hospital once after sustaining an injury trying to dodge her.

Look around for some good parenting of toddler classes. They are often offered by schools and give options and ideas for discipline instead of the old fashioned smack.

You and your partner will witness your child being naughty, nasty, telling lies, hitting others, breaking things etc. and having some solutions to discuss and trial will be less confronting.

These tools will encourage and enable your husband to not repeat how he was smacked. Many, many people were smacked but most have migrated to gentler forms of child control..

Never leave your children alone with FIL.
He has no desire to change. He is of a different era.

Tell them in no uncertain terms that the first day they smack your child will be the last time they see your child.

Does your partner plan on smacking your child.

This. This one 👆

I was actually quite worried about the same thing, because I know full well that my partner's parents used smacking as discipline.

My Child was the first grandchild, and thankfully they are entirely different with him. Seems they have softened with age, and they are actually too soft now and scared of any form of discipline, which shocks my partner who was grew up with a pretty strict/angry mother especially.

Unfortunately you already have proof that this isn't the case.

For me, I was fully prepared to escalate if things happened, but I would presume good intent.

That meant that

First, I'd discuss it, and give them a chance without restrictions (discussions were translated messages, due to the language barrier)
If they did do something, then I'd progress to no alone-time with them
If they still did something when I was there, then no-contact.

I understand the argument for not risking it, and not giving them a chance. That would depend on whether you think the grandparent has any capability of changing at all.

If I saw him doing that to a child of fuckin smack him and see how he like it. What a fucking psycho.

I’ve never trusted my father in law, who was along these lines with my husband. That’s despite my husband clearly laying it on the line and saying if he so much as touches them he’s out of their lives.

So they weren’t ever left to my in laws to look after, my parents did it all. Shame because my MiL is lovely.

Be there at all times and unleash hell if he so much as looks at them, your Sil should do the same.

Your partner needs to stand on Buisness and start getting comfortable with uncomfortable conversations. If I’ve said don’t spank my child and you do it we’re going to have issues

@Newparent101 id ask your husband that does he understand you will not tolerate HIM ever raising a hand against your child.. hopefully he’ll act shocked and explain he would never do that.. then ask him to confirm how you will discipline together without violence..

smacking sounds.. light. It softens the act itself. Just a little smack…it’s an act of violence.

you’d never do that to another adult to get your point across so why is it acceptable towards a child who’s only understanding will be the adult they are meant to trust and turn to can’t be trusted and might hurt them.

if you can get husband to agree to no smacking in your family unit.. move onto why you feel no one else should be able to discipline your child with violence either. And that he has to be on board or you will feel he can’t be trusted to stick to this agreement and protect his daughter or stand up for her.

can you imagine giving his DF a smack if he did something you deemed naughty? Elbows on table in a restaurant? Give him a little smack. Didn’t say thank you or please. Another smack. What’s good for the goose and all that…

stop saying smacking. Use more violent language and see how he feels.

maybe look at counselling for his daddy issues as well.

It's worrying you're actually thinking this through? Absolutely great you're on board it might be an option... But worrying no the less. I'd also be worried in case it turned into a "stripping of cultural roots" issue. Highly unlikely! But mad things do happen!

You just need to sit DH down and say look physical admonishment is not going to happen in this household. We have a new baby, and I'm telling you from the off this will not be acceptable for our child. I understand that you experienced it.

However, times have changed. It's not acceptable, and we will not be doing that as parents. Regardless of your childhood. It's not an option in 2025, and we will not be raising our child that way. Then that's end of. His response will literally tell you all you need to know.

I would let him (your partner) know that if his father hits your child you will be calling the police. It’s abuse and you will not allow.

In my experience even the most awful and abusive dad get contact with their children, if they can be bothered that is, and often they’ll persue contact to get back at their ex for daring to break up with them.

Ask your DH what he’d think and do if his father smacked you to teach you a lesson. Presumably, he’d be horrified. Why’s a child any different? Children are more vulnerable.

Tell him he needs to get explicit agreement from his father that he won’t be violent to your child. But I still wouldn’t leave my child alone with him, as he clearly has no respect for his grandchildren or their parents.

If he won’t talk to you, it’s his problem.

Given that the GF lives in another country he is not your problem your DH is. If he genuinely sees no issue with smacking tiny children and your baby grows up to be a challenging toddler, and kids really are difficult at times I fear he would resort to hitting them, and let’s face it smacking is a nice way to write hitting isn’t it? How are you going to keep your child safe from their father, stay together and watch them like a hawk, split up and not be there to intervene during his custody time, what a nightmare I think counselling for your DH may be necessary. Also never agree to move to Germany, to be close to his family, quite frankly the further you are away from that man the better.

I’m not sure that’s correct. You can report a safeguarding concern regarding violence to towards children regardless of who has done it. If my child told a teacher that I had hit them, that would be reported. If a teacher actually witnessed me hit my child, that would definitely be reported.

It’s also illegal in Germany to hit a child and socially unacceptable so him being German is no excuse.