Best Universities for Autistic DD with social anxiety. Looking for flexibility

What extra support is she wanting?

If a personal tutee asked me for a meeting because they were struggling, I would have that meeting asap. But it would be to come up with strategies with them that might help improve things, or to signpost them to other services, and then perhaps to check in again in a few weeks time. I might offer to email their other tutors to explain that attendance might be patchy for a period if there were difficult short term circumstances. If they needed an adjustment to the course, that has to go through the disabled students team; I have literally no power to change assessments of my own volition on my own courses, let alone someone elses. I can't grant extensions or extenuations (though I can and do tell students how to apply for these).

The way it works at my institution is that if there is a known disability or other pastoral reason why attendance is lower than expected, and the student is otherwise engaging (e.g. handing work in, responding to tutor emails), we don't send attendance warning letters because it's not appropriate. The tricky situations are when you suspect something might be going on, but the student isn't responding - sometimes the engagement warning is the only way to pull them out of the woodwork.

To your DS, I'd say that students - especially anxious ones - are often more fearful of attendance monitoring than they need to be. I've never known us kick out a student who was handing in work of a passing grade. No one will be bothered if he misses a lecture or two because he's ill (including ill meaning, not feeling up to it today).

Her personal tutor will be a reference for the first job she applies for. It helps if she’s on some of their modules.
Theyre not a personal tutor like a private tutor

Thank you for this. I didn’t realise how it worked. When l was at uni we had the same lecturers for 3 years.

Should her personal tutor not offer extra support though?

Not all unis are a sea of faces. DS chose a smaller uni deliberately, the sea of faces is sometimes single digits. He knows all his tutors and they know him, it doesn't help.

HE has adapted a fair bit. We have mental health and wellbeing teams.

But lecturers aren't teachers. We don't meet most of our students to learn their needs. I walk into a hall, I deliver a lecture to a sea of faces. I might do that ten times and they're onto the next module. I'll never see them again. I will take note of any learning needs when I mark work and we will make adjustments for assessments based on the paperwork we see on the system.

Our seminar leaders may be able to learn names and might know some info about the students but they will only see them for 8 weeks.

Our tutors are probably more consistent but the only real flag they will get if the student doesn't come to them is non-attendance of lecture for 3+ weeks.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/academicscorner/5425569-week-3-and-the-1st-years-are-asking-if-they-have-to-come-to-lectures-theyd-rather-watch-the-recordings?page=4

This is it. These are the people lecturing our ND kids. Full of compassion, full supporters of diversity.

8 weeks in, still no one has read her support plan that someone got paid to write.🤷🏼‍♀️Take her fees fast enough though.

Fortunately she’s daring much better than we though. No thanks to pastoral suppprt.

I'm not keen on attendance requirements and monitoring that require students to attend in person classes: my feeling is that its up to my adult students if/how they want to engage with their learning. But part of the reason that universities are now so keen on it is to keep track on students with mental health difficulties: it's seen as part of our pastoral care (and visa monitoring for overseas students, of course).

This is one of our issues, but it is just a stick to beat the students with. They don't actually check the welfare of the student. DS is often tired and maximises his learning when he feels at his best. He had a flexible timetable at school and was trusted to manage his workload (which he did and achieved good grades). But now he drags himself into lectures and risks worsening his health.

Erm, no. It’s about taking personal responsibility for your own growth and making sensible decisions in order to achieve your goals.

Yes this!!!!!

In our case my son doesn't even need that much support, he's very capable and didn't need one to one or check ins etc at school, just some practical support. It is actually his lecturers assuming there are things he isn't capable of (when he does these things in everyday life). Or not putting things in place which they are actually supposed to do for all students - for instance recording lectures.
If I treated an employee the way he has been treated, I'd be in deep shit. It's fine delegating to a well being team, who give the right advise but then the academic staff put barriers in place because they don't seem to have a basic understanding of equity and equality. You can't separate
wellbeing and teaching in this way.

Could someone link to the lecturers thread which has been referenced? This is something I think we will need to consider for DD so I want to be as well read around it as possible so that, when she starts going to open days and things, I can steer her to some more viable options than those usually favoured by her school.
Those Unis which are currently known as being “good” with those with autism… it strikes me that there is a risk that more and more people needing support apply there which means that that support becomes stretched and then implodes. Although perhaps if the majority were ND, many of the social norms might disappear and the ND might find life easier to navigate and then require less support!

Of course ND should push themselves out of their comfort zones but I’m not sure that’s the responsibility of university staff. And I’m not sure someone who can’t even attend lectures is ready to push themselves.

I agree with the pp who suggest taking a year or two out to work, volunteer and just get some life experience would before pursuing HE would be hugely beneficial.

What do you mean by "differentiate a curriculum"? If you mean, substitute an assessment that a student cannot perform because of their disability for another that demonstrates that they meet the learning outcomes, we do that all the time (and we have to plan the alternative assessments into new courses). If you mean, change the learning outcomes/what students need to achieve, we can't do that because the learning outcomes ensure that our degrees meet benchmarking standards.

I'm not keen on attendance requirements and monitoring that require students to attend in person classes: my feeling is that its up to my adult students if/how they want to engage with their learning. But part of the reason that universities are now so keen on it is to keep track on students with mental health difficulties: it's seen as part of our pastoral care (and visa monitoring for overseas students, of course).

It's been interesting to read on this thread about the expectations students and their parents might have from school moving to university. I would actually refuse e.g. to have the responsibility of emailing a personal tutee once a week to check in. If a student needs that level of mentorship, then that should be something that's funded via their DSA. I imagine that roles for disability and neurodiversity staff should expand in future, though where the money will come from for that, who knows.

I have 15 hours a week in my contract for teaching; I spend at least 8 of those actually teaching, leaving me 7 hours to write lectures, do marking, do my pastoral stuff (probably averages to 1.5 hours a week), write references, supervise dissertation students, etc. It's just not possible for lecturers to do anymore.

The university should put in place reasonable adjustments to allow the student to access the course. This might be allowing a video presentation rather than a live one for an assessment, or having a scribe for exams.

For many students, this will be sufficient.

However, for a minority, even with reasonable adjustments, they will still not be able to access the academic content of the course, or the environment in which the course is delivered, and then a conversation will need to be had about whether the student can or should continue on the course.

I would also say that there is responsibility on both sides. The student is best placed to know their own needs and should do their research to find out what their university course entails to make an informed judgement as to whether they will be able to cope with it. If they know they can't cope with group work and presentations, but willingly apply for and accept a place on a Business Studies BSc that clearly states on all its course documentation that every single assessment is group work based, then they have to bear responsibility for making a choice to put themselves in that environment.

It's like applying for a job that clearly states it is a 100% office based role and the office is in Manchester, getting the job, and then turning around and saying, I can't work in the office, I live in London, I need to work from home.

All of mine went to uni and I echo what @ProfessorDameMonsterSinksaid and the ones that thrived the most (all had help/dsa/ mentor) were the ones who could dip in and out of home so fairly local.

DS3 was at UEA and on paper had lots of support. He really struggled with everything else though sadly and it was not the experience he hoped for (although he graduated)

The recorded lectures aren’t great. They’re certainly not broadcast quality and I wouldn’t want any of my students relying on them to get their degree. The camera angle is pretty awful and the sound quality is terrible. They’re fine in an emergency with transcription but they’re almost impossible to listen to as the mics pick up everything, not just the speaker. OP, if she’s taking a year out can she do volunteer work with a young people’s charity where she’ll actually meet the kind of people she wants to work with in the future?

You may also want to consider a smaller uni such as Solent, York St. John, or Winchester which are less overwhelming (though less highly ranked they are generally very neurodiverse positive). Make sure any course you’re applying to is BPS accredited as she’ll need that for the further study required to work in a particular field (e.g. clinical psychology, counselling psychology, or educational psychology) and subsequent practice.

A friends daughter chose southhampton as she has SEN. However it will be bothered student and course dependent I suspect. Different lecturers just like teachers will make a huge difference. Good luck and well done to your Dd.

No it’s not a right.

But if they get offered a place and pay the fees what happens then?

Sounds rather suffocating. A bit 'stay in your lane, we can't be bothered to help you grow'. And putting it off till one can go as a mature student (not always a guarantee of personal and social skills having developed, btw) presents the issue of less choice on the job market in the interim without a degree.

They do differentiate where it is possible to do so. But it often isn’t possible because the learning outcomes need to be met. If you’re doing a Chemistry degree you need lab skills - maybe using a particular piece of equipment. If you can’t access the lab, it wouldn’t be reasonable to let the student watch YouTube videos of others using that equipment and say that’s sufficient. It wouldn’t be. Imagine an NHS lab then employing the student - who then demands the adjustment that they don’t work in the lab.

No, it's not a right. But I'm not sure ND people should be denied the right to push the boundaries and come out of their comfort zones a bit, either.

Attending university isn’t a right. If you’re unable to fulfil the basic requirement of attending lectures then I’d question whether it was a suitable environment for you.

I imagine The OU would be more suited to those who wish to pursue higher education but require a higher degree of flexibility and a more isolated experience.

By making sensible choices Staying local, with family support, doing distance learning with the OU, studying part time, going as a mature student having spent time developing personal and social skills for example.

University places don’t have to be offered.

A very reasonable adjustment is to differentiate a curriculum. It happens in every other educational establishment by law. But universities don’t have to do it🤨

What makes them so special?