My teenager just called me a f£&ing bitch

If you want to destroy the relationship with him altogether.

The problem with that @Jugendstielis that words are cheap. She did in fact need and choose to ‘love’ someone who chose to speak to her like that for 13 years or more. The boy saw it to be the case every day. Now, we as adults understand that abuse is complex and women get trapped. But you can’t undo over a decade of formative years with a speech and no laundry.

I think I would stonewall and go on strike if my child spoke to me like that. I would literally behave as though they were not there (except obviously I wouldn't leave them unattended.) But I wouldn't speak, wouldn't cook or clean, wouldn't take them anywhere, not even to school, would cancel their phone contract and switch off wifi and then when I was ready, or when they actually sounded worried by my behaviour I would speak in a very very quiet voice so they had to lean in to hear me, and say:

'You are not and never have been the adult in this relationship. I am. I am responsible for housing you, feeding you, clothing you, caring for you and caring about you. You have never had to do that for anyone so you have no idea how much self discipline and energy it takes. I do it out of love. But I do not need or choose to ever love someone who treats me like dirt. Yes, you heard right, my love is conditional. It's bullshit that parents need to love children unconditionally, if the child thinks that's an excuse to treat them like shit. I love no one unconditionally who treats me like dirt. I don't have to love or care for people who treat me like dirt and I choose not to. I will do nothing at all for you until you apologise in full. I have made a list of every insult you have thrown at me in the past month, including when I took you on holiday. Look me in the eye and hear them.' Then I'd read out each one to him. Then I'd ask him to apologise for each one by saying 'Sorry I called you X. I know you are not X. I realise calling you X made you feel... I know you are...' and ensure he swaps it out for a positive and genuine, loving phrase. Make him say something like that for every single insult he has hurled at you.

If he doesn't want to, or gets bored or angry, that's okay. Just stonewall him again. Or very quietly, using his name, say to him each of the things he has called you, looking him in the eye and after each one, ask him: 'How would you feel if I said that and really meant it? Your own mother, talking to you as if you were dirt? How would you feel?'

Really women MUST stop young men from thinking this behaviour is okay. If we don't they perpetuate it with their girlfriends and wives. It is our job as mothers to give them an incredibly hard time if they disrespect us.

There will be people on MN who sneer and think this is OTT. But too many young men are sucked into the manosphere and think their bollocks will grow bigger if they treat women like shit and nothing on earth will stop them unless we give them a really hard time about it. Shouting is not giving them a hard time - it just adds fuel to the fire. Being quiet and indifferent and cold and strong and absolutely not backing down until they take full responsibility for everything they have said is the only way. My DC very rarely tried to disrespect me. But they got this treatment at the very first sign. If they called me a name, I would be absolutely silent until they got concerned, then I would look them in the eye and say: 'You are a failure' (or whatever they had tried to say to me). When they looked shocked, because I sounded like i meant it, I'd then say in my normal mum voice: "Weird isn;t it? Bit creepy, hearing someone who you thought loved you talk to you that way. But I am quoting someone. Do you know who?" Etc. Really take the time to not let them wriggle out of being fully aware of a) what they have done and b) the impact it has on the person on the receiving end. Big, strong, unbudgeable boundaries. And yes my love is conditional. Even for my DC. That's the one condition. I don't love anyone who doesn't love me. In my world, love is mutual and I want to teach them that.

What sort of shock do you suggest?

Why would a kid whose got adhd and had had an abusive upbringing need a shock of all things? Do you think you can shock the anger or the adhd out of him? He needs calm, firm consistent parenting and help dealing with his emotions and the continuing emotional abuse from his father.

The chances of this poor boy becoming an adult abuser are reduced with love, understanding, firm boundaries, empathy (and yes consequences). They are increased with shocks, punishments and banishing to dad’s.

Strangers might not care about adverse childhood events in this boy’s life but they are the best indicator of who he will grow up to be without support. The only person who had no choice whatsoever about his upbringing was the boy. Everyone else had some iota of choice, however slim. He had none. Blaming him for being exactly the 13 yo boy they raised him to be is astonishingly naive and unkind.

This kid is hurt, abused, witnessed abuse and is suffering now because of the choices adults made. Understanding that is the least any of us should be doing.

I don’t necessarily disagree, I am a strict parent. What are your suggestions though re “a shock from someone who loves him”?

Some posters have suggested the OP hits him (which I wouldn’t agree with) but the outcome there is the teen boy realises he’s stronger than his mum, physically hurts her and then the power dynamic shifts in the wrong direction when he realises he is the strongest in the house.

I do wonder what all the cuddly understandings suggestors think will happen the first time this bloke encounters someone in the wild who doesn't give the tiniest shyt what his daddy was like. He needs a shock from someone who loves him before someone who doesn't doles it out.

Im actually going through court with this ,dad letting son 13,disrespect me the way does.
We ve been split a long time. And I'm out of ideas as son runs to dad, and has no stable life there. It's so hurtful sorry your going g through this too x

I couldn’t disagree more with the “I’d tan his arse” comments.

A nearly 14 year old, in puberty, will generally be stronger than his mother, in a few years’ time he will be bigger as well. He probably won’t have realised that he’s stronger than her, but he will if she decides to hit him and he retaliates.

Then the OP will end up in a situation where her angry, unhappy son knows he’s physically dominant and there’s no dad in the house to act as a deterrent.

I agree with @ADHDwifeHP
it is very ‘normal’ for audhd people to seek a reaction from behaviour whether negative or positive because there is a dopamine hit from the reaction, also whether negative or positive.
plus, as you say @Bookishworm he is processing a lot and sometimes this processing can take a lot longer and is not linear where there’s been such a big life change plus what sounds like family trauma for a long time prior to the split.
this would be a lot for kids who are nt too.
if you can access nd and trauma informed support this is probably the best route to start with as well as having frank and open conversations with your son who is old enough to understand a lot of this now, if presented in a way that makes sense to him.
he is acting out and wants a reaction and wants to feel safe.
if you instigated the split perhaps he is also subconsciously testing to see whether he is safe with you or if you are going to ask him to leave too.
it sounds hard but also know that kids are often harshest to the caregiver who they feel safest with.
sending hugs

Totally agree.

OK let’s have a look at this. He has been modelled (which is more effective than saying it) that calling you a fucking bitch is acceptable and right. And it was used against you whenever your ex wanted to signal negative emotions. So your son, because he was taught to do it, called you a fucking bitch because he was feeling negative emotions.

A good parenting expert will pick apart the stages of this. First, antecedents. If he is tired, ill, hungry, upset or anything like that, no emotive conversations. Leave it to a neutral time.

Then, how you communicate. You were essentially saying, “see more of my parents, and you should feel guilty if you don’t”. You feel guilty and you were trying to make him feel guilty. Because that’s probably been an effective way to try to get your needs met in a house that was abusive. You can’t be assertive, you have to be passive aggressive. But it is the worst way to communicate with him and he will get avoidant of the feelings it causes in him. And again, what has he been trained to do when upset? Call you a fucking bitch.

And finding a new way. You need to work out how to ask for things, communicate things and listen to things without blame, guilt or me-railing. And he will have to learn that calling you names isn’t the only way to have his needs met.

He doesn’t know why you did that because for 13 years you accepted it. ‘Fucking bitch’ is just as much a normal phrase to him as ‘cup of tea’ is to a person in a healthy household.

The people telling you how dreadful it is and how you can’t put up with it don’t understand that to him, there’s nothing wrong with it because the two most important people in his life parented him that way. You have to kindly, empathetically, and calmly, spend the next 13 years attempting to retrain him.

You won’t be able to do it without support. Please please read, learn, take every parenting course you can, get therapy, everything.

Which you would be.

Or they'd really do one over you and report you as abusive.

😬

You can’t “wallop the arse” of a 14 year old boy, they’d be stronger than you and it wouldn’t end well.

You are allowed reply to this. In a way that explains his Dad’s behaviour was unacceptable, and involving the child in the divorce is not OK. It is convenient for his Dad to blame others as a way of avoiding any insight into his own actions. (General principle for everyone there)

There are many sites similar to this and the will help you.
broxtowewomensproject.org.uk/domestic-abuse-and-its-impact-on-mothering/

How is sending him to live with his dad going to help? His dad will just reinforce this behaviour. Or would those giving that advice be prepared to lose their DS for ever?

I'd go for the ignore and disengage. He wants a reaction. Good or bad.

Exactly this.

What a dreadful response. I have certainly not always stayed calm dealing with my DS. However, swearing back at him, insulting him, denying him access to his devices is awful parenting and another form of abuse that will only escalate the situation.

OP needs to model positive behaviour, not join her DS in his behaviour.

You are so right!! Wonder where all the abusive men come from!? The parents who seem to think physical, verbal and emotional abuse is a normal part of parenting. Many of whom are right here on this thread. It’s honestly terrifying to me

You can’t be serious? I really hope you’re not a parent.

@Bookishworm I'm so sorry you are going though this. It resonates with me - right down to the age.

I won't be able to give all the detail here as it so upsetting but I am in a very similar position: I have 3 DC, 1 DD, 2 DS. My DD has never posed any challenges beyond very normal teen behaviour and we have a great relationship. My 2 DS (16 and 14) are currently extremely challenging, even while they can be lovely, funny, bright, sporty boys.

I am divorced (after a long separation) from their abusive father (who I was with since university) who has treated me and them appallingly. It's absolutely the case, as it is in yours, that unfortunately, his treatment of me, and them (he has subjected them to emotional abuse and erratic behaviour for years, has never been a parent to them (they are with me all the time, he would see them occasionally and when it suited him, and would happily cancel / not turn up / let them down and not see them for long periods. They also refused to see him at certain periods) has shown them a pattern of how to behave, especially towards women (me and DD).

My 14 DS in particular has behaved like yours. He has significant issues with becoming easily dysregulated, and lots of situations pose a challenge for him. I have had a hugely tough 2 years, and it is the loneliest place as there is essentially no-one I can talk to (fortunately I have an excellent counsellor). I am some days in despair, other days feel like we are making progress. It is very up and down. He excels at sports, has lots of friends but his behaviour at home, and with the wider family is very problematic.

My suggestions:

• Ignore the awful advice from so many here to send him to his dads. You need to limit the influence from this man (my DS were very small - a toddler and a baby when I managed to leave my ex; I did it exactly because I didn't want them to grow up around him, and turn out like him. It's incredibly upsetting that somehow, they still do mirror his behaviour).
• This is easy to type, and believe me, I know it is not easy to do - as much as possible, de-escalate the situation. Of course it is unacceptable to speak to you as he is doing, with the language he is using. Reacting to that in the moment won't help though. You can mirror back the emotion you think he is expressing, ask him to tell you more, and sometimes, ignore it. It's not sanctioning the behaviour - he is behaving like this out of hurt, and taking it out on you as the person he feels safe around. Trying to see through to the emotion is sometimes helpful for me.
• I know you feel he won't go to therapy - my DS is the same. In the end, I went ahead anyway, and told him that I would be bringing him there, and he could choose to engage or not, but I asked for a committment to attend at least 3 sessions. The first time we tried this, he wouldn't engage at all. We are now trying again, early days, but he's engaging a bit more. It may take a few efforts.
• If you don't have a counsellor, I'd really recommend it. You need someone safe and knowledgeable, who is there for you, primarily.
• Again, this is hard to do - try to put away the anger and upset, and when he is calm, find any positive way to engage with him - a shared interest, watching something together, getting involved in his sport / hobby. I know this feels like 'letting him away with it' but it's part of helping him to regulate. What I have found is when he is calm, he is well able to articulate what is happening for him emotionally, and he is fully aware of how wrong his behaviour is. So he doesn't really need me to point it out.

In terms of punishment - it won't work. I get the posters saying he needs consequences, and he does, but simply doling out punishments won't help. His behaviour is coming from hurt and vulnerability - if he could control it, he would.

I do limit certain things e.g. his access to screens / phone if he has behaved really badly, that's more linked to the fact it usually exacerbates his behaviour if he has been on screens when he is in this type of mood.

I do understand why some posters are talking about harsh punishments and 'I would never let my child do this' etc, I was a strict parent, my DC were all expected to behave to others with respect (and do, usually, externally), they didn't live with my ex so didn't witness on an ongoing basis how he behaved, though they still saw plenty over the years, but regardless, I am in this situation with my DC, and I'm sure I might be judgmental of others if I hadn't experienced this.

Outside professional help is the only thing that will truly help here, and it is likely to take some time and won't go in a straight line. I hold onto the fact that being an engaged, caring parent as you are means so much and in time, it will work out.

(happy for you to DM me if you want to talk more)

Good luck OP

Maybe, but my reason for posting was to tell OP why I called my mother that one time in case it was helpful. It was about my emotional needs, ones I made sure to meet in my children after having them so neglected myself, so I think that is why they never had that kind of anger towards me. Not having seen their father do that to me is also a massive factor (though kids will pick that language up elsewhere anyway).