To say: Women, stop marrying down.

Well that would be lovely if true, but it takes both partners to know what love actually means.

There are plenty of "more" mature lads around in their late teens and early 20s. They're not all immature children.

Are we saying it's OK for men to marry women with less ambition and emotional intelligence? Maybe the ideal is total equality but that's probably pretty rare.

YABU or else who is going to marry my sons 😅. God knows I’ve tried to chivvy them - my last hope is a nice girl to take them off my hands

Yes, that's how I read it.

I think a lot of people get together when they're young and the emotional maturity, ambition and stability are about the same. Then the women grow up and the men stay the same. I doubt most women in unhappy marriages knew what their husbands would grow into when they married them.

Hell, neither would I.
Wish to goodness that we’d encouraged our youngest to learn a trade as an apprentice instead of running up debt earning his first class degree, which qualifies him for a niche industry.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I agree, I married down in so many respects (couldn't see it at the time, I was raised to see only one kind of man as a potential husband and never to expect better).
I have drummed it into my daughter to have a much higher bar than me and I have drummed it into my son to be the higher bar for his future partner!

Completely agree. I never wanted to take on a "project" . One of my first serious boyfriends, me 21, him about 24, spent a lot of time lazing about, took drugs quite a lot, had very little initiative and never really wanted to go anywhere. After I moved on, his next girlfriend got him exercising, tidied up his room, don't know if she did anything about the drugs - he married her. I would never have wanted to be with someone longterm that I had to chivvy into behaving like an adult.

Is it ok for men to marry down?

I'd do the same and have done similar in the past. Right from the outset of my relationship with DH (38 years ago), I was very clear as to boundaries and expectations. He was under no misapprehensions as to what I required from a partner/future husband. Thankfully, he rose to the challenge. When we first got married and moved in together, there were a few "bumps" in the road such as him getting home from work at the agreed time (and if not, telling me as soon as he knew he'd be late), not keeping the bathroom clean, not washing up, etc. I didn't throw things around nor lose my temper, but I made it abundantly clear it was not acceptable behaviour. He soon "learned" to share the tasks and be reliable etc.

That's exactly where my first serious boyfriend went wrong. He didn't respect my boundaries (tried to do intimate things I wasn't ready for so early on), often unreliable (i.e. not turning up when we'd agreed to go out together etc., and not bothering to let me know etc). He didn't last more than 3 months and I kicked him into touch before we got any more serious. Funny thing was he really couldn't understand what he'd done wrong - he had no self awareness at all that if he'd agreed something then he had to follow that through.

Men have been doing it forever….

Also the OP: "less income"

Sorry you are going through that.

I don't think its true for all men with ambition but certainly I know a fair few who are very selfish, workaholics etc

Does love conquer a man leaving his wife to do everything around the house, everything for the kids whilst also working etc? This is the kind of treatment we read about on here all the time. Being in love with him is not enough - if he truly loved her back then he’d be more considerate.

I do agree with you but then on the other hand women are berated for being single and not settling, so we can’t win.

This was 40plus years ago and her parents definitely did think that.

This wasn’t my experience of ‘marrying up’.

Marry (or partnerup) with someone with ambition before you're totally solid in yourself and you end up being utterly taken advantage of though.

Men with ambition will trample on you to get where they want to go. Make all the pretty promises, then when you're burned out declare you boring and go with someone free, young and exciting.

Then you'd better hope that you weren't a complete pushover and you were sensible about making sure enough was in your name and you didn't totally neglect your career to boost his.

This is where I find myself. Sure, the kids and I have come out very well compared to so many - but he's 10x better off, from standing on my back through our relationship, and I'm frantically paddling to get myself back towards the track we had planned to be on together now that he's cut me lose having taken my labour for years.

I don’t think anyone sets out to do this! It’s a bit simplistic and naive to think that cracks can’t appear at different stages in marriages….. a lot of marriages are fine before children come along for example. I agree women should have conversations before marriage to try and work out if the man has similar values and beliefs. But I don’t think you can cover off every eventuality.

It really can't. "Love" won't pay the bills, it won't help with the life admin, etc. Choosing a partner has to be a mix of "skills". It's very easy to "fall in love" with a "wrong-un", especially when you're too young to realise the practical side of adult relationships.

Soooo...SAHPs shouldn't be married. Not an equal match in your opinion?

Women have been sold the Mr Darcy fantasy: that an emotionally stunted, mean spirited, resentful git will suddenly find the milk of human kindness because of the love of a good woman. She will unlock all the good in him, and he will spend the remainder of his days in devoted reverence. The reality is that she's saddled herself with Homer Simpson.

This! I never cease to be amazed by the poor treatment by husbands I read about on here. Have higher standards and don’t accept this for yourself.

(It’s not about money - I earn more in my 20+ year marriage - it’s about being a team and taking each other's needs and wants into consideration).