To say: Women, stop marrying down.

Ah, but there you were - you were in your career, and a demanding one - already.

When I met each of my exes I was young enough to only be starting my career (and they the same - generally at a similar level, or me a bit higher)

Then they pitch the whole 'team work' thing, and you have no kids, so that's fine, I took on the bulk of the stuff 'I was good at' - cooking, organising (not cleaning TBH ;) ), DIY etc. Then kids came along (he was actually the driver of that , although I also wanted children), and 'it was just sensible' that my career took the back seat. Which soon became 'but you're better at it' and 'but if I step back they won't understand' and 'but you have qualifications so I'll never get another job' and before I new it, I was running myself ragged looking after home and kids and trying to keep a career.

It's so easy to fall into - and I'm a stubborn fucker normally! I just thought we were a team. And he thought I was his caddy.

When it comes to trades, I'd happily have a relationship with a tradie - I find general competency very attractive (I'm still a bit mystified what I saw in my ex TBH - he didn't know which end of a hammer to use). Skilled, makes own hours, what's not to love?

True. My electrician has three kids at independent schools. He knows how to charge, and he’s worth every single penny.

50% of people in marriages are "marrying down".

💯 Too many women on MN are carrying too much dead weight.

I think we need to teach women that they always, always, always, ALWAYS need to make sure that at any given moment, they do not need a fucking man. Move in with him, sure > make sure you have a deposit for a rental and rent saved before you do. Be a stay at home parent if you want > as long as you've saved enough in your personal savings that you can put a deposit down on a new place and pay for childcare at a moments notice. No its not popular. But im absolutely horrified at the situations people voluntarily put themselves in where they are reliant on other people. Never mind 'trusting someone when they promise they will support you', that might have passed 50 years ago but its 2025! Noone younger than say, 50, can seriously be under the impression you marry the first nice boy you meet at school and you stay together forever madly in love. We have such immature attitudes to relationships. And if you dare say 'but, most relationships ending, its a fact of life, not a moral failing, we need to treat it more as part of life not the world ending' you get accused of being miserable or hating men. I love love! I love (one) man! I love that people still fall head over heels! But come on... people still approach relationships in a way where they go about their business like it will never end, when the likelihood is it will?? You wouldnt go to Scotland in October without a raincoat and then panic when it rains.

Hard agree. It’s not about money or power but about who you are. In my friendship group the marriages that broke down where the ones where the partnership was unequal. My three beautiful, clever, friends married men who just didn’t deserve them - these men were lazy and entitled, less ‘engaged’, expected to be treated as ‘the master’ of the home, and their professional engineer/pharmacist/journalist wives to obey them regardless of the drinking/gambling/womanising problems. In two cases these women became victims of physical domestic abuse. Lucky for them, because they had good jobs and good friends around them, they were able to leave their awful marriages and are much happier now. Many aren’t so lucky.

Thanks so much for this nugget op🙄

Tell that to any women who married for “love” and thought they could motivate a lazy husband.

Surely that depends on whether they are a well-mannered, intelligent gas engineer with a couple of staff and a £100k yearly profit, or a rude, dirty bricklayer who earns £150 a day (when he can get work) because he's unreliable and lazy?

It also depends on where you are in life... if you're lazy and smelly then it's a lot harder to marry down than if you're royality!

I think the important things are to share a lot in common - ideally being brought up in similar households in a similar location with similar values and similar political views, work ethic etc etc etc... but then again opposites can attract and different people can compliment each other, so there's no hard and fast rules!

I have to say that as a couple with two degrees, two post-grad qualifications and two professional qualifications between us, I would very much hope that ours study and do well in traditional terms... but I fear that over the coming years and decades the people who do well will mainly be whoever came top of the class at Oxford, plus those tradesmen who have the people skills and work ethic to run successful small businesses. Everyone in between could well end up in a very poor place!

What I really don't understand is the posters who say "I'm expecting my third baby and my husband is a bastard". I mean, I know contraception shouldn't be entirely the woman's responsibility but it's in her vested interests not to keep having babies with a cunt.

Crucially, Darcy reflects on the error of his ways and apologies unprompted before Elizabeth marries him. I do like to think he's changed.

Also they have servants to darn his socks. They will have very different roles in the household, but I think Elizabeth will accept that as normal for the time.

It doesn't pay the bills or give you a happy life.

I did this OP, and I'm now divorcing. I settled as my biological clock was ticking.
I don't actually regret it though, i have a wonderful DD, STBxH is a good loving dad, but otherwise infuriatingly useless, but not a bad person. I could have found myself in a much worse situation.

You're lumping together two different things as though they are one.
Marrying someone less wealthy or with less earning potential isn't a problem, as there's no reason a woman shouldn't be the primary earner. Given the GPG, most women do 'marry up' in this way whether they seek to or not, and it hasn't done a lot for our situation, mainly resulting in us putting our own careers secondary to theirs, creating a vicious circle.
Marrying a man inadequate in other ways is obviously not a good idea. However many fail to reveal themselves as such until a family has been created.

I'm more intelligent and organised than my husband, but he's more diligent and conventional. He earns more than me, he's kinder than me, I'm funnier than him. Looks probably about equal. He does a decent share domestically, he changed his career at my request to suit family life, he's choosing to move with me to my preferred place to live. I made him wait years to have kids. He made me wait years for him to learn to bloody drive. I'm crankier and more critical. I'm also less grumpy about domestic chores.

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the gist. We're two imperfect people who probably would be "on a level" with other people. But I don't see how you can manufacture a relationship where equality is actually the right goal.

Our tough times come from life's adversities - if we were exact equals, we'd be left exposed with the same weaknesses and fallibilities - I think our differences are a strength.

And it can conquer all.

It really can't. 🙁

This 100pc
Some women see men as a meal ticket

Nail on the head.

You joke but there’s truth in it. I had some horrendous relationships when younger and while I obviously wasn’t responsible for other people’s poor behaviour, there is only one person responsible for not dumping these wasters far sooner than I did: me. Similarly when I realised I had a pattern of unhealthy, unhappy failed relationships, I looked at the one common denominator (me) and did therapy to understand the part I played in it repeatedly happening. Women do have to take responsibility for self-growth and our choices. It doesn’t get anyone anywhere to consider themselves a total victim of circumstance.

I had an uphill battle with the dc growing up

On one hand they had me saying 'put-your-clothes-in-the-basket-as-im-not-doing-it-and-they-wont-get-washed-otherwise' and my father (and brothers) saying to my ds's 'dont bother son,she'll crack before you do!'

I never did and all pick up after themselves as adults

It's manipulative and awful behaviour

@Achewyhamster

He's a fully grown man and he either stepped up or fucked off

That was my attitude too! Right from the earliest days of our relationship starting. It's about setting general boundaries and expectations and respect. Not about the tiny detail. Get the "headlines" right and the little things fall into place naturally.

Yes - I can't remember the exact stats but it's approx 2/3 women at top unis and 1/3 men. Men still dominate the top paying professions though!

I saw a very similar post from a man on another forum, saying that most women just go after a man's money and to either partner up with a woman who will either contribute equally or will stay at home and cook and clean. Perhaps we should all have 'bands' such as A1,B2, C3 etc so we can avoid 'marrying down'?

My mother told me i need to train a man. I have a child i don't want another. 1st husband was a loser. 2nd is world's apart.

This is the only attitude worth having. Don't put up with shit. Ever. If you find yourself mistakenly putting up with shit - which I have on occasion from DH and very occasionally from DS1 - correct your own behaviour immediately and never ever put up with shit again. Make it clear you won't. And stay powerful. No ranting or tears. Just strength and absolute conviction.