To say: Women, stop marrying down.

And yet it was, because your immediate thought in response to the OP was to remember something about a man in the trades from 40 years ago!

That correlation happened in your mind.

There was nothing in the OP to suggest occupations had anything to do with what she was talking about (and they don't).

I think it comes down to marrying a reliable teammate and therein lies the issue, their aren't enough men out there who set their own needs apart in favour of joint enterprise of marriage or child rearing.

This means that so many women marry men who don't put as much effort into the relationship because what's the alternative? Hope to find the very few men who actually set themselves aside in a relationship enough to work as a team.

This is also why men rarely marry down because even if they earn more, most (and of course there are exceptions) of their partners will be doing the majority of the child rearing, household, mental and emotional load, i.e. making a massive contribution to the labour of unit.

I think we are sitting in an uncomfortable position where there are still echoes of a past where it was good enough as a man to have an okay job, not be an alcoholic or beat on your wife and you were a catch. Back then women just didn't have the same choices to be single, legally (jobs/mortgages/credit) or socially.

Unfortunately a lot of men's responses to this is not to level up like women have in the work place but to blame women for the temerity of becoming legally self-sufficient and no longer subjugated! Which goes back to; if men won't get with the programme then women will marry down if they not want to be alone or have children alone.

I disagree, I married down and trained him up. Ideal.

In what way is marrying a tradie marrying down?

Does being a tradie mean a man lacks all things the OP listed as 'down'? I don't think so.

less ambition, less emotional intelligence, less income or less stability

Tradies could score pretty highly on this, imo.

I don’t disagree to an extent. I married a lovely man but yes I married down in terms of finances. It doesn’t bother me but I would probably advise my daughter differently.

Bear in mind also that Elizabeth's feelings changed when she was shown round his enormous country estate...

I disagree with this, my DH is extremely generous, I am more careful and frugal. We actually balance each other out perfectly.

We have been married 30 years and never had one argument about money.

Many of the ones stuck in unhappy marriages have married up.

No, income gap was one of the first thing she mentioned.

Given how in my age group men earn more than women, if men refused to marry down, we'd all be in trouble.

Her parents judgement. Not mine.

You haven’t actually met any of the women posting on here. They may not be marrying down.

YABU to mention money.

I don’t think income is relevant at all.

I would rather have a loving man who is a hard worker and decent person and father but is on NMW than someone rich who isn’t these things.

What about men who are disabled or have disabled kids and can’t work or earn much?

I think men and women should find someone who has similar values to them and is a decent person.

My grandad was not wealthy but he worshipped my grandma and kids/grandkids she had the most fantastic life because of it.

Generosity is a good example of a trait that isn't inherently good or bad, but more an indicator of compatibility.

I hate the insult "tight" so let's go with frugal. A generous man will not be compatible with a frugal woman. They will argue over his generosity to friends and family members and even over the fancy but unnecessary things he buys for their own household. The frugal woman will be compatible with a frugal man. The generous man will be compatible with a generous woman.

I agree with you @MarriedUpMindset .

I've also told my daughter to make sure he's is a generous man, like her father and grandfather.
I can only imagine one that's well to do and stingy is much worse than one who has nothing to give.

He's likely ambitious, hard-working, emotionally intelligent... and doesn't lack a bob or two.

Given that the OP is blaming women for men being shit, obviously it's all our fault. Men have zero responsibility for growing up.

You may not have meant it, but it was implied because in your example the clever woman had a happy marriage despite marrying a man in trade.

Practically everyone told me my DH was "beneath me". We came from very different backgrounds, I grew up in a stable home with both parents, dad had a stable income, mum was a SAHM, they owned their house etc. Went to a good school, did well in my GCSEs. DH grew up with a single schizophrenic, abusive mum, in and out of care, didn't start any kind of education until he was 14. Became a father at 18. Was working in a shop on a YTS.

The only person who was ever supportive of our relationship was my mum. We've been together for over 3 decades now, he's the most stable, emotionally available, loving person I've ever known. A fantastic father, always shared the load (kids are all grown now), both with the kids and the housework, always worked hard, always putting me and the kids first.

It's not always about being similar, it's about the person they are.

Do the fathers not get any blame here?

Was it Mae West who said 'I married beneath me, all women do' ?

I am a lesbian. And perpetually single becuase my dating history is shocking. I do not have a fantastic job or a pot load of money, but I do okay, and I have never met a lesbian who is 'higher up' than me in any stakes or even equal. I am not saying they do not exist, I know they do. I just have never found one.

Every smart tradesman I know are killing it 🤔

"Up" or "down" isn't the real key, that's compatibility, and every relationship I know that's foundered has been because the two people involved were INCOMPATIBLE. It was neither one's fault but for whatever reason they decided to overlook it and a shitshow resulted.

I would say that if you perceive yourself to be either above or below your partner, you should not be marrying them. And if you perceive people in general to be in this sort of distinct hierarchy then you should not be dating full stop.

Women have traditionally found themselves in pretty awful situations as a result of marrying "up" (scare quotes necessary of course) as well, needless to say.

I wouldn’t say marrying a bloke in a trade was marrying down necessarily . It’s more about the man’s attitude to life and willingness to be better.

I would never recommend marry for money or not following you heart... but on the other hand we are moving into an increasingly unequal society, more like it was in the 18th century.

Another decade the way we're going, and Farage flogging off the NHS in 2030, and you may well find that people choice is effectively "marry up for money and get decent healthcare" or "don't marry up for money and die very early due to lack of access to basic medicine"