To say: Women, stop marrying down.

Ive gone too far the other way. Very easily put off by small stuff

Absolutely.
Again, speaking for myself.
Would add, put yourselves first in life, nobody else is going to do it for you!

I do agree but I think it is important for both sexes how to behave and treat each other, i am not saying you dont think this but it works both ways

And both to lead by example

But i really love him, and everyone is just jealous

I absolutely agree. The views, as stated previously, are not my own.

Hopefully most mothers are not teaching their daughters that, but of course you must teach by example. If your kids see you putting up with shitty behaviour then you are letting them down. I have sons and I have taught them to behave well and be respectful.

Right. How many posts right here on MN have we seen along the lines of "My 'partner' of six months has a 2-year-old by a prior relationship along with a six-year-old by his ex. He hasn't worked in two years and might be a bit lazy around the house, and smokes a bit of weed, but he is an amazing dad on the two days per month he sees his children. We are planning a wedding for next summer but I recently fell pregnant. He kicked off and wants me to terminate but I won't do it. I am not sure how we are going to afford rent and childcare, as I am a low earner and he has not been seeking jobs. Am I BU?"

Women are not to blame for how men behave, but they are if they ignore the red flags, women dont need a crystal ball just to open their eyes, how much thought goes into the relationship before ttc or is just hope for the best?

Especially if a man has history

I reject this argument. In my lifetime observation, the signs are always there. But some people get so focused on babies, marriage or whatever goal that they will snatch up any specimen, no matter how flawed, if they feel the clock is ticking. Then they claim they were blindsided.

As I said, ask their family and friends. Usually the red flags were flying.

It's not "blaming women" to suggest that discernment and prudence in choice of partner is likely to lead to better, less disappointing and less toxic outcomes.

Women don't generally go into a marriage already knowing their partner is like that. Quite often, these men only start to show their true character later on - usually once the kids have arrived.

But you carry right on blaming women instead of blaming the men they married, who turn into arseholes or have an affair years down the line.

Women are not possessed with an innate crystal ball.

I'm not but people beleive what they want, I could identify as a tree it wouldn't matter teaching daughters there only worth is what a man can give them is not healthy, a man is not a plan

And if we need to tell women to think higher maybe they need to work on their self respect before dating

But are you a man? You haven’t actually said one way or the other.

’Bad boy’ vibes are the biggest turn off me. I wish they had been when I was younger (I liked edgy rather than bad) but now I find kindness, thoughtfulness and just genuine niceness to be far better than edgy or bad.

Wow, this is the best post I’ve seen in a long time!

Why am I a man?, are women all one collective brain who dont have an original thought in their head? Being an Infantile woman should not be a hobby

Women want to be considered intelligent capable grown ups so why dont they act like it

I will leave the classless drunk comment alone

But being in a trade isn’t going down. It’s the work ethic, ambition etc that makes someone up or down

a self employed, driven tradesperson certainly isn’t a downgrade for anyone

Indeed

It's the ones who are still at dating stage, no kids and you just want to metaphorically shake them because they are ignoring or excusing red flags. I was one of those people and if I could give my younger self a talking to on recognising them and having the self confidence to not accept or ignore a single red flag, I would have made very different choices.

Oh look, a drunk man has entered the chat.

Maybe men feel they are marrying down, men are not a bank and we endlessly hear about feminism but it only seems in the pick and mix variety.

Why are women trying to remain independent human beings and actually act like the grown ups they are, or do they have some weird daddy issu3ds going on

A woman doesn't need to be taken care of like she is a doll ahe needs to act her age and be her own mature person, maybe give being a grown up a try

I don't think "marrying down" in the OP referred to socioeconomic status or occupation, at least not to me.

So many women, including legions here on MN, hook up with immature uncouth louts lacking in empathy, ambition, kindness, sense of responsibility, work ethic, provider's ethic, etc. And so many women allow men who aren't committed, or who are outright flighty, feckless and disinterested, to sire their offspring. It's truly baffling.

"Don't marry down" means don't hook up with anyone who is less mature, less responsible, less empathetic, less financially solvent/savvy, less kind, less articulate, less curious about the world. Don't saddle your children with a piece of shit for a father. Have standards and hold out. Better to be alone than to be with a loser.

I like that.

I agree.

You're right, I think I was being a bit reductive. Compatibility can definitely involve an element of opposites attract. But both people have to be the kind of person who's OK with their partner being the opposite of them - which is its own kind of compatibility...

People change.

You can "marry up" and find they've become a different person in 10 years time.

It's really not that simple @MarriedUpMindset

I agree with this. They should be equally matched in income/opportunities etc so that it’s fair across the boards that each partner brings something to the table and does 50/50 with home and children.

A lot of the posts on here are women who unfortunately chose low paying careers and then it’s so much easier to justify cutting back to even less because you are the partner who’s income matters less to the family pot.

In my case, DH does half of the housework and childcare easily. I do a bit more of the mental load and we are working on that. But I only bring in 2/3 of his income so it kind of evens out. I often wonder if he’d consider he married down because my income capacity is much more limited?