To say: Women, stop marrying down.

Yes and same for men too. Stop marrying gold diggers and women after a free meal tickets.

Both sexes can do better.

I was going to say - that's absolutely not the norm among my friends...

EDIT - I meant to the OP, not to your response soap!

And yes, most of us are ordinary people - just like most blokes (who, you'll be surprised to hear, don't naturally have hairless faces and short hair! They apply products and effort to make themselves look more attractive - who'd have thought people would do that!)

I don’t know that the “up” and “down” stuff is the right way to describe it but I agree with the notion that you shouldn’t have to parent your partner. Marry a grown up.

That was my immediate thought too!

“Most” of us? Speak for yourself. I have none of the fake things on your list (other than a bit of fake tan on my legs at the beginning of summer to stop people being blinded by the pasty white). Same goes for most women I know.

My ex is a top earner, top job, in demand professionally etc, I am minimum wage, typical low paid traditional ‘women’s’ office jobs, never professionally ambitious, but he turned out to be a downgrade for me. I wish I’d chosen a nice milkman or postman instead. Good job, ambition, going places - they don’t mean you’re going to be a good choice. Character is what really matters and that should determine if you have down or upgraded.

Totally. I have no tolerance for them anymore.

Excellent answer. Too many men just want a mum-replacement.

Exactly this. Particularly when kids come along I suspect in many couples the woman raises her game and the man doesn't. The disparity was not evident initially but grows over time as responsibilities accumulate.

I know quite a few women who have married “down” ie for a husband who earns less (an accountant, doctor, dentist, Project manager), and all of them seem to have very happy marriages. The men pull their weight at home and the women have the freedom to have a say at home.

Same here. "Bad boys" are fine when you're a naive teenager messing around for fun, but really not for an adult long term relationship.

Nail on the head.

I assumed she meant cocklodging, lazy deadbeats.

Do you know what, I don’t really care. I have a lovely strong marriage with an equal partner. Yes 25 years ago I may have been fiery tempered, but I tell you what, if he’d have kicked me into touch, I’d have learned my lesson (which I did anyway). I’d rather be single than with the men I read about on here. Women need to stick up for themselves and not be so passive in the face of poor behaviour. My DH was golden child and a father that was quite domineering, he needed to get a quick message that women weren’t all like his own mother. Fortunately he’s also a smart guy and got with the program pretty quick. You may not like my methods, but it worked.

I trust you are in an equal and strong relationship, perhaps your DH/Partner didn’t need a new perspective and was raised in an equal and balanced home? Not everyone is as lucky!

Your nonchalant attitude is typical of every mother I’ve encountered of useless adult sons.
They almost think it’s cute (😅) and make light of it, it becomes an ongoing joke. They’re also adamant they’ve tried to chivvy them but it’s blatantly obvious to everyone around them that they didn’t try hard enough, or left it too late in life.
So they either baby them into adult life or wait for a ‘nice girl’ to take the responsibility.

Don’t expect a responsible woman who’s a nice person to take on the burden of your useless offsprings. Please encourage them to be single.

@From the OP

less income or less stability

so yes is absolutely about money and future success

Depends on the woman. Most of us aren't even being honest about what we look like. Fake tits, botox, fake up, fake tan, fake nails . . .

And we're not all that interesting either. We're just ordinary people.

You don’t have to marry up, you can marry an equal. Op didn’t say marry up, she just said stop marrying down. Its about attitude and behaviour, not money.

So instead of 50% up/50% down you could also have 100% equal (but that would require more men to behave better).

Datenomics and desperation to settle down. Not enough eligible men, bio clock is ticking , pushed to take anyone more or less willing.

You sound lovely...

This thread is not about earning potential. It’s about maturity, responsibility, work ethic, empathy.

It’s a story as old as time. Woman meets an early-stage scrote, has a baby with him, then he turns into a full-blown scrote.

100% this ^^ men have for years ( centuries) married down because they meet a woman that they actually like and want to be with, irrespective of their earning potential.

I must remember to tell my son not to marry the woman the actually likes , but one who has a solid financial future

I fully agree with this.
My own 'married down' experience was about marrying a lazy and undeserving man, who was financially and emotionally abusive (fortunately never violent though).
He came from a background of wealth and parents who were considered to have 'good standing' within their communities etc.
Many people probably assumed I had married 'up', but I didn't. I inadvertently married a man-baby with a bad attitude, and no desire to contribute to our relationship in any way that didn't involve taking from me. It was definitely marrying down.

On average 50% of women must marry down by this logic, but equally 50% of them must marry up. Should the same apply for men in that situation? Maybe there are very narrow bands of matching income, intelligence or ambition that people should be permitted to marry in.