To think that society does not require Botox

I'm with you to a point OP. If she had said 'it's my treat to myself and makes me feel better' it's very different to 'society expects it so I have to' - which makes it sound essential chore rather than a choice, which is a bit sad. It should be akin to getting a manicure - a nice thing to do which makes you feel better.

However, it wasn't really your place to question someone you don't know very well on their personal choices. Would you have quized her if she got her nails done, or her hair? Or a new outfit 'why did you buy that new coat, your other coat was fine?". And for the record I'm really not a fan of botox, but I would never feel I had the tight to question someone else on using it.

On its own, of course it is a lot of money. You are correct.

But in context, as a yearly spend, for something that someone prioritises because it matters to them, it probably works out at budgeting £100-£150/month.
So it is not wildly expensive, especially for a transformative procedure. It is within reach, as it were.

But even women who could easily afford this without having to budget, are not doing it.

Yes it is a popular treatment but a lot of women simply don't feel any kind of societal pressure or personal desire to have Botox and they still do look after themselves, still look presentable, don't offend anyone with their looks and they look perfectly normal pleasant and beautiful.
And of course a lot of women avoid such treatments because of valid health concerns.
And a lot of women spend money on others treatments. Which may or may not have their own health risks alongside the large variety in prices.

The aesthetics industry is so much more than the stereotype of ‘women being pressured into Botox.’ Yes, social pressure does exist, but for a lot of women it isn’t about fear or hatred of ageing; it’s choice, and simply wanting to look like the best, freshest version of themselves. As PPs have said.

I actually see aesthetics as part of women’s evolution, not their oppression. For many women it’s not about conformity, it’s about aspiration — feeling good, presenting themselves in a way that aligns with how they live. That’s not anti feminist.

Some women don’t care about appearance and live happily that way - brilliant. Others enjoy treatments, skincare, injectables, whatever. Also brilliant.

What is worrying is when women are said to be vain, insecure, stupid or victims of society. The extremes online don’t define the profession, and they definitely don’t define most women’s choices.

For me, supporting women, means supporting both choices - those who embrace ageing naturally and those who embrace aesthetics as part of their self care. Neither is more feminist than the other.

Have you gone a bit overboard with tie Botox because you seem Uber defensive! I'm sick of telling people that people are more concerned about people paying shite aestheticians to deform their faces! There are too many people out there with infected acid heavily scarred lips but you carry on being angry at the wrong people if it makes you feel better. Are you equally as bitter towards anyone that doesn't support the crazy amount of horrendous surgeries that Katie Price has had?

I love Botox. I have the money to spend and I think it makes me look fresher and awake. I only started a few years ago ago when I hit 50. I don’t care if other women feel sad for me. Spend your energy feeling sad for more worthy causes.

I’m 68 and love a bit of Botox thanks. My face, my choice and f all to do with anyone else. Why are other people (women) so judgey? It’s a subject that’s questioned in here far too often - mind your business and worry about something else instead

It's absolutely bonkers, but I'd keep my opinions to myself. As this thread shows, if someone does it, they think it's fine. So won't appreciate your views.

Is everyone well off on here? Can’t be alone in thinking it’s a lot of money!

@Branster Thats my point about when interventions are good, they aren’t very obvious. It’s helpful to have the great face structure to start with, but being judicious with what you have done pays dividends.

For many women, £1500 a year is not out of reach when dc have left home.

£800 every six months not that high? Not in your world, maybe, but I think that would be out of the reach of most women, there’s no way a budget could be “tweaked” to afford what is often the average mortgage amount!

@Allseeingallknowing what I mean is that the relative cost of upkeep (let's say maybe £800 every six months) is not actually that high. If that is a priority for a woman/man and they are not earning particularly well, they could tweak their budget to achieve this regular spending. On a decent income it can easily become a negligible expense in the great scheme of things. So it is an accessible treatment the way I see it.
That's why I think it's not often the cost which is keeping people away from Botox.

On an observational level and pure curiosity on my part, I do wonder how or if Melania Trump uses Botox. I expect she has lots of treatments. But, interestingly, she definitely does look her age, albeit very well put together, but she doesn't look aged in a tired, collapsing manner. And although she has some lines on her forehead, they do not detract from the overall facial harmony. I suspect she would still look attractive (not younger) with more obvious lines or wrinkles.

@ItsameLuigi I think, if it’s discreet, it’s difficult to tell. You will see extremes of everything and spot that a mile off, but others is really not obvious. It makes them feel better and more confident, so be it. Most aren’t doing anything for men’s approval. Women do it for themselves.

Women have followed fashion for millennia! Look at some of the dresses in the late Victorian era and wonder how they had waists that small! Clearly an unhealthy fashion fad. I am not a fan the current bum cheek showing short skirts, but teens seem to like them. Are they wearing them to please boys or society? We have choices and we make our own. Thats surely feminism.

The lengths that people - women mostly - feel they have to go to are so sad. That looks matter so much.

people care because we rare social animals who want the respect of the pack - and for many people looking good is a way they try to get it

advertsiers play on insecurities , feed them

does it work? Good looking people find life easier. That’s been measured. Many treatments however have an artificial look that people can detect and so it can backfire. To be seen as vain is not good. Which means you can’t better yourself ( visually) which is against the backdrops to our society - the Protestant “work hard and you will succeed “ -and the advertiser “ You can be anything you want”

Do you question again and again everything you dont approve of?

Well I'm not sure it has anything to do with feminism, I work in a male dominated field, and I have botox and lip filler.
Not really because I give a stuff about society's thoughts on me now, but I did look pissed off all the time before I had it, now I can't frown so I don't, and all I've been concerned about is that I don't reach 60+ and find myself in a position where I've aged so much I am uncomfortable with my looks and struggle to reverse it.

Yes. It is insane. I’m 61, had breast cancer and a mastectomy 9 years ago. You couldn’t pay me enough to inject botulism.

But then you get comments like someone posted upthread about how as a responsible member of society they don’t want to go around with wrinkles.

The judgement goes both ways, doesn’t it?

Personally I don’t care what people do or don’t do to their faces. I also don’t want to be judged by what I do or don’t do to mine.

It is sad that as society so many people seem afraid of seeming or looking older. Which is a different issue to someone thinking they look better with certain treatments.

It's people who feel some kind of pressure who care. Others really don't.

If they think that too many people having procedures to improve their appearance means they actually look older/more tired by staying "natural", they don't like it.

Please tell this to my brother - a t12 paraplegic of 10 years - no sensation from heart down.

Why does anyone care about who has what? This is so odd! Women attacking other women is just unpleasant. If people want to do this, let them. It affects no one else. Most people that have it are very discreet and you’d never know. Unless you are nosy and want to ask why someone looks good! As for posters thinking you see the results on certain tv shows! You don’t. You see self publicists on these shows. Not ordinary women.

I overheard two young women talking about getting it the other day. And yes, I did judge them for it. All it tells me is that they’re insecure, which was a sad thing to witness as there was nothing at all wrong with the way they look. They looked happy and lovely.

I’ve never understood the point of trying to look younger. Why? You’re still old. You’re still going to die sooner than people who are ten years younger. You still have that many fewer years of fertility left. You will still feel older, and be at higher risk of age related diseases and wear and tear. What possible consolation is there in looking younger when all of the meaningful expressions of age are still weighing on you?

Youth isn’t beauty. Someone joyful, secure and kind will look a hundred times more beautiful than someone with an immobilised face.

I wouldn’t say it was- starting at about £275 for one area, lasting only a few months may well put some off!

@Allseeingallknowing I didn't know that! Safe to say it's definitely not exorbitantly priced and within reach. I don't think the majority of those who don't have Botox, choose not to do it for financial reasons.

Botox is more expensive than fillers!

It might be a regional fashion.
In others countries women don't embrace cosmetic interventions of this type, such as fillers, or even hair extensions. And they all look beautiful and normal copying the local visual habits. Which would be towards a more natural look. Of course they still look after themselves in the beauty sense, having hair and skin treatments, maintaining a trim figure and all the rest of it. So it's all about what you are exposed to, what are those around you doing, trends really.
I think women all over the world are often doing things to maintain or enhance their looks according to what is fashionable where they live.
Bar actual surgery, a lot of treatments are reasonably accessible financially in the UK. It's a question of priorities. Botox is one of the cheapest treatments as far as I can tell. It's not the cost of Botox that keeps people away from it.