To think that society does not require Botox

I can guarantee that at 44 you are not line free, unless you have a skin disorder that I've not heard of.
Anyway, thats great but I put money on you looking better with it and its preventative so you'll stay 'line free '.

@Pancakeorcrepe Is it not the new norm though is it? You would not walk into your local library and be certain the female library staff had all had Botox! Or maybe you mean it’s the norm for the under 30s? Given lowish earnings, it’s not the norm! Or is it the norm to stave off wrinkles when over 60? In reality it’s none of these because it’s not the norm. I think it’s far from it. It’s a subgroup of women who are happy with the results. That’s their choice and doesn’t harm anyone else. The norm is totally overstating the use of Botox and fillers.

Since the 80s, actually.

Cheerleading bad choices is not somehow "better" than asking hard questions. Lazier, yes. More comfortable in the short term yes. But not "better".

"Better" is understanding there are valid reasons why individual women make choices that are bad for society in the long term, and often indeed ultimately bad for themselves as well, and having sympathy for those women, while still recognising that the real goal is not a future where we don't care what other women do even when it's harmful, but a future where those good reasons to make bad choices no longer apply.

I don't know where this weird idea came from the Feminism means we can't criticise anything another woman does, but no, that is not Feminism.

It’s the women falling into the trap of doing this and then pressuring other women to do it, that should be better. We are entirely entitled to have an opinion on these choices. I’m sure you realise how human minds work and that by a certain number of people creating this as a new norm, other people will follow suit. It is and will always be a stupid thing to inject poison in your face just to stop wrinkles. Do you really want to live in a society where this is the norm? Why can people just age normally? Now people ageing naturally are the odd ones out.

@Allseeingallknowing In your opinion. If people like how they look, why not? Their choice and they don’t have to please you! Or indeed anyone else.

But some are clones, slug lips, Miss piggy false eyelashes and over bleached hair- not a good look.

@mistyeveningponder What’s really good now is that many women are individuals. They can choose how they dress and what make up suits them. No doubt when my grandma bobbed her hair in the 20s it was somewhat scandalous. The older generation didn’t approve. By the time QE1 was a young woman, nearly everyone had shorter hair! We evolve and have different ideas and right now there’s no diktat about how you dress or look. We are better for it.

You're totally right! each decade had a very specific look but I cant really think that anything fashion wise defines the 2020s look - apart from maybe the cosmetic procedures we are talking about.

I just think the idea that we should be against it purely because "everyone looks the same" is just silly because as I said, my nan's generation all had the exact same haircut, the exact same perm, the exact same clothes etc so looking like your peers has been a defining feature of most previous decades

@mistyeveningponder I think that’s an interesting observation. We would all recognise the mini skirt era of the 60s. We are certainly able to define eras by fashion. For some, fashion is now Botox but when it’s a young women, can anyone really look at them and really know? Lip fillers, yes. But then again, only if too extreme. We are back to mini mini skirts again but it’s not universal. A bit like lip fillers! There isn’t really a 2020s look that’s universally adopted. I think since oversized power suit jackets of the 80s, fashion has been less regimented.

Society doesn’t expect it. She wants it, knows it’s a bit daft, and so pins it on societal expectations that don’t exist.

"they all look the same"- a curious assertion considering that if you showed someone photographs of the 70s or 80s or 90s without them knowing what era it was, I bet they would be able to guess exactly what decade it was due in part, to everyone "looking the same".

My nan used to joke with me that all teenagers looked the same whilst when she met up with her friends they too all looked exactly the same with the same short grey perm, tan tights, tweed skirt and flat brown shoes.

@Ewg9 You are completely and utterly wrong! I suspect very few young women do this. Where on earth do you live? However it’s their choice.

You are not wrong OP, it's terribly sad the brainwashing of all the young people with various cosmetic treatments. They all look the same!

@faffadoodledo Yes. And avoid op!

well maybe the young colleague has learned a lesson there - don’t overshare in the workplace.

Yes, the colleague initially said she did. Who knows why?!

However, in the opening para the OP asked why her colleague had Botox. She asked for more info. Then “I kept on saying I didn’t understand why it was required”. “Kept on” being the important words. Then the colleague “eventually said social media”. So - maybe @Illegally18 you should read exactly what the op wrote. She asked repeatedly about Botox and why her colleague had it. It sounded overbearing and intrusive to me.

but the young woman with the Botox told the OP! The OP didn't ask.

@lastones Yes. Many products used for a fresh skin look aren’t injected. What Botox does is slightly different and posters use the wrong word. They might feel rejuvenated because their imperfections are lessened but it’s not their all over facial skin that’s “fresh”. They feel they have had a refresh - that’s fair enough.

People often say Botox when they really mean any kind of injectable like fillers, biorevitalisation, botulinotoxin, the whole menagerie of treatments. And to be fair, some of them do work visible magic for the skin quality / freshness. And Botox itself is just one brand (not even the best one!), it's just ended up getting genericised in language like Hoover, Tupperware, or Velcro.

I think for me, Botox does ‘freshen’. I can’t really think of a better word. I also think that people only notice bad Botox.

I have now referred 9 friends and colleagues to my Botox Dr. The conversation always goes, ‘your skin is great, what products do you use?’ And I say, ‘Dermalogica and Botox’. 😊

i have no idea. I’m just saying many on these boards claim their Botox just makes them look ‘fresh’. It’s a kind of justification, claiming they just look natural. I maintain you can almost always tell someone has had injectables. And ‘fresh’ isn’t the adjective I’d use, but it is the one many injectees use!
my DD looks fresh bc she’s 27 and has always used sunscreen. I look my version of fresh after a good nights sleep. Those who’ve had injectables may use the euphemism of ‘fresh’ but I’m sorry, they look ‘done’ in my opinion.

10000 times this. I'm very sorry for girls growing up now, if the expectations are ramped up even more. Women have been and will be judged differently from men for ageing, and if the expectations get much higher for women, it's hard to see how this is positive, or even neutral. I would never blame individuals for feeling the need for procedures. It's not like I used make up and did my hair in professional setting just for myself. I could just skip it but I don't, and I acknowledge it makes me fit in that social environment's expectations of how women should look like. I also acknowledge that a lot of what I do, that any one us us does, has to do with social/societal expectations.

@faffadoodledo Botox cannot be the “fresh” look on the whole of their face as Botox isn’t applied everywhere. Skin looking all over fresh is achieved by a skincare regime that’s dedicated to this. DD is a devotee but never has Botox because she has no lines or wrinkles to eradicate. Botox refreshes your looks by targeted application, but it won’t enhance all your face skin to have the fresh look. It’s also a look requiring very light make up and healthy eating. It’s not about Botox.

And yet you often read posters in here saying their Botox isn’t noticeable, but just makes them look fresh.