To say that women look bloody weird ….

When I was on dating sites around 7 years ago many men said they preferred the natural look with no lip fillers etc.

I feel for women who really go overboard with the filler in face and lips, it does look like a blow up doll, maybe they are unaware and gradually get more and more or maybe they like the fake look? Up to them.

Kelly Osborne interview this morning on ITV breakfast programme, Very odd look and persona and what she was saying was odder.

This really isn't true. Cosmetic procedures are not a journey that once embarked upon with an eye brow enhancement inevitably ends up at a Brazilliam bum lift. What women choose to do to artificially enhance their appearance is a continuum, at the one end of which is lip stick and dying your greys, at the other end is life risking surgery. Most women pick their point of comfort on that continuum and stay there.

All you posters slagging off women and men saying their Botox makes them look like they have facial paralysis - are you aware that Botox is actually used to try and minimise the effects for those that do actually suffer from facial paralysis?

But people who do this then move on to the next fade. People who had their eyebrows tattooed on now have them layered off because having two caterpillars on their forehead isn't fashionable. People die because their treatment goes wrong.

I think ‘certain’ men do and being honest usually more intelligent ones who value brains as well - even then I think they often prefer what I call a natural ‘plus’ look -

😂 what? I think you’re projecting / judging me by your own standards. That’s ok, only human!

Yup. My neice has a little lip and cheek filler, wears long fluttery eyelashes and has got wavy hair extensions to her bum. She has gone from one of the crowd to men fawning over her like a goddess. Because she doesn't wear obvious make up and prefers casual clothes men compliment her natural look. They really don't have a clue.

It's a bit like men insisting they "love women with no makeup", and then pointing to someone wearing a full, meticulously blended nude glam with foundation, contour, lashes, highligher, blush, neutral eyeshadow, the whole picnic - just not a dramatic smoky eye and red lipstick.

I'm sorry, but men only prefer a 'healthy natural appearance' when that results in the woman meeting certain criteria naturally.
Studies also show that men prefer youthful looks over aging ones. Full lips over thin ones. Smooth skin over wrinkles. Straight white teeth over crooked yellow ones. Certain body shapes over others. Abundant shiny hair over dull and thinning hair. Because all the things the cosmetic industry attempts to emulate with more or less success dependent on the skill of the practitioner, is a look of healthy youthful fertility.
For women who have that naturally, great. For women who don't, the industry creates options to mimic it.
But the idea that its not based in male standards of female beauty, just because men prefer women to look young, curvy and pretty 'naturally' rather than with help, is nonsense.

Yes! Some slebs looked perfectly fine even beautiful before having the work done and I can’t work out why they did it - especially the young ones.

I agree. Women can be absolutely brutal about other women who choose to age naturally, don’t dye their hair, don’t wear makeup, wear ageing clothes etc.

I agree OP, of course people can do what they wish to their own appearance, but it's sad that the puffy unnatural face is becoming standard, and men are catching up. I feel sorry for them, as they obviously believe their natural appearance is not good enough, or they are not worthy of attention/acting jobs/love or whatever. Sad.

My personal view is that some women look very nice with some procedures. Others are not to my personal taste
Far more importantly though is my view that other women don't exist to please me aesthetically, so their appearance is none of my business

This is exactly how I feel too. I dont think women "owe" me a natural look any more than they owe the world to look perfect. I remember being a child in the 80s and there was a lot of pearl clutching about the punk movement - men and women with spiked up crazy hair and facial piercings etc This reminds me a bit of that 😂

Oh the defensive replies on here!

Thank you.

Its impossible to answer in a binary way. Because 'beauty surgery' as you term it covers such a wide range of procedures. My personal view is that some women look very nice with some procedures. Others are not to my personal taste.
Far more importantly though is my view that other women don't exist to please me aesthetically, so their appearance is none of my business.
One of the key arguments against procedures is that the industry adds to the pressure on women to be ornamental. This really sits badly with women who are against them judging their merit on whether they make other women more easy on the eye or not.
If they made women look better in your opinion, would they be OK?

Stop minding then!

Agree too
Each to their own, would be boring if we all looked the same and liked the same things.

I don't think the pressure is necessarily coming from men. There's been decades of studies showing than most men generally prefer a woman who has a natural and healthy appearance.

Sorry your ability to read is so poor. I wasn't the one asking 'what is a pornbot space alien' so I have zero clue why you're explaining it to me.

I'm not sure what the answer is on this tbh. I can see the argument that it makes people happy but I also regularly see people with distorted faces.
I spent time with a younger relative, 25, at the weekend and she is planning Botox because she thinks her expression look like wrinkles .She looks lovely and isn't a high earner, it worries me that this has become a financial priority for her.
Anne Hathaway, Emma Stone etc all look perfect but it saddens me that this is becoming normal even in late 30s , early 40s.They were already gorgeous. Makes you aware of the flaws in yourself that wouldn't even have been considered a couple of years ago.

I knew most men were out of my league. I kind of ‘knew my place’ at university and knew that the really good looking ones would never look at me, going for my attractive blonde friends instead. And I was right. It wasn’t a great feeling. I would not have dreamed of asking any man out, never mind 200! That’s impressive. I was surprised when my husband asked me out. He wasn’t ugly so he clearly saw something that the many others didn’t!

I am, objectively, very plain. Had the most dreadful time right through to early thirties (although I married and had children, some of the things I heard said about me were painful).

Now I'm in my sixties and my looks don't matter at all. Nobody cares that I've got grey hair, a big nose, dreadful teeth and no chin. And my eyes are too close together. None of those things would have been fixed with anything other than major surgery (apart from the hair!) so I never bothered. But having reached the age where I am almost literally invisible, it's great and I can look on people struggling with their looks with sympathy rather than condemnation.

Imagine you'd never met your husband... and before dating apps existed, you’d approached maybe two hundred men in real life, asking them out. And the responses ranged from a few instances of outright laughter to, more commonly, the gentle and polite let down easy speech. The first time in my entire life a man initiated anything with me socially was when I was 28, and that was after I'd already sorted my teeth and my skin. I remember it until now, it was like I was struck by a lightning - so unusual it was. Even though he was very drunk and probably in his 60s lol.

In every other way, I was not unlike you: top of the class, teacher's pet, STEM doctorate, career on track, weird internal confidence… all of it.