To think being a woman costs more?

given your comment op about only knowing women who talk about Botox, for your own sake, widen your circle.

Is the question at hand about should women spend money on these things at all? Probably not. We know they are arbitrary societal norms. Taking a stand is probably wise and would be good for the pocketbook.

is the question at hand how should a couple budget? Well, that is entirely different. Are they actually both comfortable with the woman taking a stand and giving up things like makeup and whatever other grooming she has typically chosen? Is the man who is upset about the spending levels suddenly going to instead be a bit upset that there is no more mascara and no more shaving? Now, this gets to other societal and relationship issues, but just being practical, the man can’t really have it both ways. Either he is willing for a larger portion of the household budget to go towards these items or he isn’t.

Nor do most men
You have fallen into the trap that women need to look good and fertile to be worth anything

YABU. Those things are choices. I shave my legs, I paint my nails, I've never had a wax or a mani/pedi, I used to dye my hair but the ammonia began to sting after a while and I started to miss my natural hair colour, I buy shampoo that gives me a clean head of hair without any of the fancy stuff. I don't use conditioner. I use shower gel to wash my hair if need be as it has much of the same base ingredients as shampoo with a slightly different pH balance.

If you're in a customer-facing role with strict appearance requirements, ie air hostess, then the waxing, mani/pedi, hair styling, makeup etc are all necessitated, but I imagine it's all covered in the salary.

Yes but we don’t look like Sinead O’Connor.

Florence Pugh, Natalie Portman and of course Sinead O'Connor looked great with buzz cuts. But nobody has said anyone should get a buzz cut!

I can't believe the contrarians on this thread are now recommending buzz cuts for women! 😂

Honestly? Nobody cares when the person is effective at their job. They start to care when they are not.

They’re choices in that they’re not legally compulsory but it’s like saying we don’t HAVE to wear office wear, we don’t HAVE to go running in running clothes, we don’t HAVE to wear nice things to the restaurant/theatre, we don’t HAVE to wear a raincoat when it rains… IRL different events call for different clothes, and men are lucky in that generally speaking a capsule wardrobe will do for most things. They can buy a couple of well cut suits and a few nice shirts and they’ll do for work, meals out, theatre, funerals, weddings. I can’t think of a single female outfit that would do for all of those things, possibly a black knee length dress but it’s a dated look for a meal out. Men’s clothes just don’t seem to ‘date’ in the way women’s do, very quickly. They don’t wear jewellery. They don’t carry handbags.

Of course, a woman could own a couple of black dresses and technically they would do for all the above, but it would be freezing in winter, seen as ‘funeral’ or ‘worklike’ for fun events, and eventually everyone would wonder why she wore the same thing every time that looks a bit dated.

Dressing well or just appropriately is a sign of respect and character and for women it’s just a much tougher gig involving more imagination, more items, more specificity of event and more effort.

I agree with you @ClairN.

not only that, but going on maternity leave then kippers your career and salary too. My husband and I used to earn the same but two children later, he’s been able to move companies and get promotions whilst I’ve been on maternity leave twice, so now earns more than me.

You need lingerie and a bikini wax to be respected at work? You don't, it is discretionary.

I go to the hairdressers because I like it it's get my hair dyed every 12 weeks but I wouldn't argue the toss that It was discretionary spending and moan about "fun money"

If you like to take care of yourself then yes its definitely more expensive. Perfume is well known for costing more for women than aftershave. Hair removal and beauty treatments. Chemical hair treatments, sanitary products and women's clothing. It all adds up! My partner spends very little on himself compared to me. He complains that a lot of it is unnecessary but he'd soon notice if I didn't do some of those things.

There’s a really simple solution. Stop giving a fuck about society expectations. Also, and I really hate to bring it up as I hate it when people shoehorn something about trans people into irrelevant discussions, but there is a real irony in the insistence on trans threads that wearing a dress and makeup doesn’t make someone a woman, yet here we have people saying that it is somehow a fundamental part of being a woman…

I have spoken at international conferences with a £30 hair cut, home box dye because I like my hair to be slightly outlandish colours, no tights or make up and wearing a dress I've worn many times before. I did not look out of place.

If your profession requires you to look a certain way, claim the cost on expenses. The reaction you get when the claim is refused will tell you all you need to know.

I thought grey hair was fashionable. Does anyone give a damn about someone else's nails polish? How weird.

I do facial hair with a spring thing I bought off Amazon years ago, stings a bit at first but soon settles down.

You’re the exception to the rule, well done you but in my setting I know it would be sniggered about and of course no one would tell me that’s why I was passed over for progression but I would know.

These are all optional. Men are more likely to be attacked by strangers than women at night

These are all optional. Men are more likely to be attacked by strangers than women

I don't think bikini waxes and hairdressers are mandatory, although I do agree choosing to spend your money on these is expensive, tights and underwear is surely just clothes and anything "fancier" could be bought with fun money.

Keep telling yourself this. 6-figure earner with hairy legs and a buzz cut here. Buying into this crap is a choice, and if you want it to change, then be the change you want to see

Completely agree, or grown out grey hair and natural nails, facial hair, tatty tights, They would be lambasted.

Occasions - women can't get away with the same couple of outfits for every occasion, but men could definitely get way with a couple of suits

Of course we can. I have 2 nice dresses that I've worn to weddings, conference dinners, big parties etc multiple times over the last 10 years.

Someone upthread said that it doesn't cost more to be a woman it costs more to be a sucker. The only thing this thread is proving is that more women than men are suckers.

Of course it costs more. The argument about discretionary spending ignores the cost of not adhering to social norms for many professions.

Can you imagine high profile female politicians getting away with the same 3 outfits on rotation, no makeup, and a buzz cut?

Totally agree. I tell myself it’s for me but it’s not really is it? I’m mature enough to realise it’s so that I’m treated with respect. It’s a much deeper issue than just not doing it, kudos to those who don’t but if you wish to be treated a certain way and be deemed professional looking at work etc then I would argue that some of the things some of us have done are actually necessary. Very misogynistic really especially now men are allowed to have facial hair in professional settings. I think I would be demoted if I grew my beard out! (I jest of course but you know I wouldn’t be treated the same as I am now.