Fiancé asking for a prenup

Any pre nup needs to be fair- so it should afford you meaningful protection too. That means covering birth injuries etc and making sure you're not one of these wives who has no access to the money their husbands earn, pay for all the children and domestic costs while earning a pittance and looking after the home because they even a pittance in comparison.

You said you wanted a marriage so you weren't screwed over, make sure the agreed terms of that marriage don't screw you over.

And this place is always quick to tell women to marry if they want children for the same reason as you've given so I don't know why you're getting such a hard time over it.

@Aquea I think a prenup is a sensible idea. It’s not just about him protecting his business. It’s also about protecting you. Research shows children have a lasting negative impact on women from their earning capacity through to pensions. A pre nup can include how you jointly fund maternity leave, your pension and compensate for loss of earnings if you go part time or become a SAHM.

You quite rightly want marriage before children for the legal protection. A pre nup is an added legal protection. It can also make sure you are aligned in how you raise your children, is he going to be hands on and share the childcare and mental load or is he expecting you to do it all.

Tell him prenups are not recognised in this country so save his money getting one drawn up. Once you are married with children you are entitled to half. If he doesn’t like it then he shouldn’t do that.

He would be an absolute fool not to have a prenuptial agreement arranged.

Your reaction to this proposition, actually validates the need for a prenup.

I'd dump him.

He's protecting his business. You'd be advised to do the same on here.

If this is upsetting you, don't marry him.

OP, you are absolutely right to insist on marriage before children. Protect yourself. However, he's trying to do the same. I think it would depend on what the prenup entitles you to. But, what an awful way to go into marriage and having children with that weighing over you.

Sorry OP, but it's clear that you're not happy with what is happening, please, please listen to what you're gut is telling you - DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN!!

If you do, I fear that you will live to regret it, as having such massively different outlooks on what marriage means to you, is to me a huge red flag.

I agree that the ideal scenario for a woman, is to be married to a man before she has his child, as otherwise he can, if he wishes, walk away, leaving you holding a baby, who of course we all hope would be healthy, but could have severe health problems, that may force you to give up a career, leaving you struggling for money, and without support either financial or emotional. We women literally put our lives on the line when we carry a child, even now, so to me, having a baby before getting the financial security which marriage provides if planning to have children, is a far great risk to a woman's future, than a man losing half his assets if he marries you and it doesn't work out.

For him to protect his assets with a pre-nup, which a solicitor told me is not legally binding in the UK, is him saying that he doesn't trust you not to take him to the cleaners, and while divorce is rife these days, to me it says that he's not all in as far as this relationship is concerned.

I don’t think it’s wrong for marriage before children to be non-negotiable. But him asking for a pre-nup is also not unreasonable.

But what strikes me the most is you’ve described your relationship in a way that makes it sound transactional. And so, is it the request of a pre nup that’s bothered you, or has it merely highlighted an unhappiness within your relationship? It seems you don’t feel you have what others have.

This.

I’m not against prenups for established middle aged people who want to protect their fruits of their lifetime labour.

But he’s looking to barricade his assets yet happy to have you take the physical, financial and social risks of bearing his children??

No thanks. Bin and move on.

I've nothing against pre nups, but this man is not the one for you. This isn't about pre nups, or marriage before kids,its about your gut screaming out that this isn't right for you.

Every line of your post suggests you know he's not the one for you, that it doesn't feel right, but that you're too scared to walk away just because it doesn't feel right - that you feel you need a more concrete reason than that - so you're trying to work out whether this is issue with the pre nup is enough of a reason.

Well, with the right person the pre nup wouldn't be an issue, and you dont need a reason to leave someone if it doesn't feel right.

Listen to your gut.

It's not the most romantic thing, obviously, but I heard on the radio today that it's good for couples to talk & plan for finances in the event of relationship breakdown.
I can certainly see your POV about wanting marriage before children, and I suppose I can see his too - you could be married 20 years, and then be entitled to a share of his business? I'm not sure if it quite works that way tbh - but I imagine that's his fear.
However, you need to discuss more than what happens if you break up. You need to know how finances will work in your marriage - will he want separate finances, or will everything go in the joint pot?
I've heard of a surprising number of couples with separate finances where the man earns higher, and the wife is left struggling for money during maternity leave, left with most of the childcare/housework, and even juggling nursery fees/full time work & 50% of the bills while on a lower income. You don't want to find yourself there.

I'm so sorry to say it, but I wouldn't be marrying someone who asked me to sign a pre-nup. Or be convincing someone to marry me. Not only because it removes all romance from the situation but mainly because it would completely shift the power in his direction in the relationship. As a woman, as soon as you have kids you're most likely to be at a massive financial disadvantage - you're much more likely to be the one to cut back at work or stop altogether. If you do get divorced, especially if it's after a few years, and need to go back to work full time your earning potential will be far far far lower than his. Marriage would be a legal protection ensuring that you are financially safer, a prenup (depending on the terms) could leave you totally scr**ed. I sorta went the other way (actually by accident), I planted the seed that I wanted kids, he said he wasn't sure, so I said ok and dropped it entirely. Didn't bring it up again (because I didnt want kids with someone who didn't), but I guess that that me dropping it removed the pressure for him in his mind, and a year later he actually proposed to me that we have a child. It had taken away the pressure so that he could make his own mind up about what he wanted. Depends on your age though, regarding how long you're willing to wait in case he changes his mind. But that sick feeling in your stomach is important information, telling you that something is wrong - please listen to it. Not saying that he's necessarily the wrong man, just that this situation isn't feeling right for you. Good luck <3

Of itself, a prenup to protect his business seems sensible. The worry that you’ve pushed him into marriage is something else entirely.

You also haven’t answered how the marital finances will be handled and, most importantly, whether you are comfortable with them. I think you need to be a team with a joint standard of living while you are married. If your earnings take a hit during DC young years, your standard of living should not. We see too many threads where a young mum is struggling financially while her DH lives high on the hog. I find this repulsive. A married couple should be a financial team.

None of this is to say you deserve a half stake in his business if you divorce which is why the prenup seems sensible to me.

Two years is not a particularly short relationship, only on mumsnet would you hear that bandied around, and it is a normal time frame for thinking about marriage, at least when you are in your late 20s, or older. Perfectly reasonable request.

His pre nup idea is probaby reasonable too though.

You've negotiated your terms, he's doing the same.

Much of marriage can be unromantic, divorce even less so!

Statistically your marriage has a roughly one in two success rate. I don't blame him. Are you happy with the deal?

@Aquea - you are correct in not looking at marriage just as a flowers and romance. You understand it gives you protection if you have children and end up sacrificing your health/career. You must understand that he also looks at the legal side of marriage and wants to have a degree of protection.
It's NOT about you proving anything, or being un-romantic. It is about the legal side of marriage.
So - be fair. You can't insist on - marriage before kids, meaning YOU don't believe him to take care of you/kid in case things go wrong. While at the same time expecting him to just believe you that you won't come after half of his business after a short marriage.

That said - do negotiate a good pre-nup. Think what you think is fair, discuss it. For e.g, - sure, you plan to get back to work soon after birth - but what if you can't - either for your health, or your child?... Also - what about having more than 1 child - and hence your career being held back, naturally - that has to be included in there somehow. And - more importantly - there needs to be a recognition that if your marriage survives a long term - 10years+ than you do have a more equal claim on assets? or something like that....

Generally - and currently - pre-nups can be set aside, especially in a long marriage - if there is a need to meet partner/children's needs adequately.

So, my advice would be - negotiate your pre-nup and get on with life.

I would be thinking really carefully about what it would be like to be married to him.

Would you share a joint account? If you were on maternity leave would he give you access to money? Would he have an opinion on if you went out for a coffee with a friend? Got your nails done? Bought some new clothes? Just some things to think about.

I have an ironclad pre-nup. Never needed to use it - we kept our individual money separate and all inheritances are separate and we shared the house based on our contributions over time. I put more money into the house at the start and he put more money in later so we ended up as half shares in the house anyway. We split all household bills and childcare and paid 50% each. We have been happily married for over 30 years. And fair enough about wanting to be married before having children - I mean I'd rather be a wife than a girlfriend with children.

I don't think that just marrying somebody after two years entitles you to half of the business they spent years building up.

I went back to work six weeks after having children with a live out nanny so I didn't really have a long period of time where I didn't have a salary. I think it is fair if you are planning to take time off with children and he is on board with that for some provision to be made so you are not disadvantaged during that time ie he puts some money in say your superannuation. And he should absolutely be paying half of childcare costs - it shouldn't be up to fund that solely out of your salary.

Looking at it in purely rational terms, I can see where he is coming from.

But the way you describe the situation, I get the feeling that he is overly invested in protecting his finances, at the expense of making you feel wanted, cherished and safe.

If a woman gives birth to children before she is married to her partner she is a heck of a lot more vulnerable and open to financial abuse than typically a man ever is.
Even if OP marries this man who puts money at the forefront of his decisions she is still at risk of being financially abused by him, particularly if she is on maternity leave.
It's still.very much a man's world.

As far as I know, prenups don't hold up in uk courts