Fiancé asking for a prenup

Well a much better “protection” against financial disadvantage would be to not give up work, and to not become financially reliant on someone else.

o/p you negotiated marriage to make sure you got your financial security, he is negotiating his.

tbf the business is likely a ltd company and it’s own entity. You’d be a particularly grabby person to force the sale or closure or that business so you could profit on divorce.

why can’t he ring fence the business? Then at least he knows he and his employees won’t suffer in a divorce.

I think a prenup to protect a pre existing business is completely fair. Not only did he build it before he met you (ie without your help and support), but it's also his livelihood. In the event of divorce, if his business gets considered a marital asset then you'd basically be taking his job away. So it's fair to ring fence the business, while all personal assets stay on the table as marital assets. The only caveat is if he tried to hide personal wealth within the company, not sure how that could be fairly exposed.

What assets are you bringing to the table?

Good advice

You both sound quite untrusting. Why is that? It shouldn’t feel like this OP. Is he really your person?

I completely see why he wants to protect his assets after having made the commitment and sacrifice to carry and give birth to their babies, and all the associated sacrifices.

wait, she’ll be doing all that. These two people are not the same in the sacrifices they will make to have the children they both want, and let’s not pretend they are.

that said, I’m not NOT ok with the prenup, as long as it makes significant allowances for you if you’ve had a baby. If it justs protects him then he’s not worth having a baby with.

Yes, I do live outside the UK and I'm a solicitor so I think I can say it is iron-clad. I gather that even in the UK they can have some effect and may even be quite significant but that's not my area. I don't think the statement they aren't worth a bean should be relied upon though. Anybody signing one should have proper legal advice with somebody experienced in the area reviewing and explaining the document. Independent legal advice is crucial.

I'm not surprised you feel sick, OP. Asking for a pre-nup is a massive insult.

Some random thoughts in no order.

I agree with your marriage then children philosophy.

know that If you sign a prenup without your own separate legal counsel - its very very unlikely to hold should you divorce.

If you get your own counsel he should pay.for both sets and you should pick.

You can negotiate so terms change after x years of marriage or children.

I agree with others this sounds like it doesnt "feel good" and your gut is saying this is a mistake.

From what i see ìn people around me; A divorce is much more emotionally damaging then a bog standatd break up (with and without kids). It really deeply impacts people, there is also the time expense etc. (But... I have never divorced myself)

Depending on my age it would significantly change my apetite for risk re:staying and risking it vs leaving. I now have 2 (3 and 1) and was v v ambivalent about children... i had my first in part "for my dh"... what a clown i was!!!! Knowing what i know now i'd Never ever want to be without them....yet still Would also never have chosen to have children on my own or outside of a marriage (even if that marriage fails).
Eg i'd choose to have an 8 yr marriage 2 kids and then divorce over being single and childless in my 40s or doing sperm donor and being a solo parent (thats just me based on my personality)

You are at a pivotal moment....
I'd consider counselling sessions solo to help you make peace with the prenup or workout how to decline it / end it.

Leaving the question of the pre-nup aside, my husband would have been quite happy to just live together. I told him I thought you did that before you married somebody to check you were compatible - if you were you got married, if you weren't you broke up. As soon as he heard my philosophy of marriage, he was very keen to seal the deal, get the ring on the finger and go through a religious ceremony in my faith. I don't like the fact that you really had to twist his arm to get a proposal out of him. It doesn't really sound like he wants to marry you. And simply being married doesn't mean he won't walk out leaving you with the children. If he is not keen now, imagine you have been up for hours with a colicky baby that has never slept for more than two hours at a stretch and screams and screams. How much less keen would he be then? I don't think the pre-nup is really the issue here.

I wouldn’t marry someone who asked me to sign a prenup.

I think that you need a lawyer to read his proposal as it’s possible that he has come up with a reasonable way to protect his business and pay you a fair amount in the case of a split.

Self employment can be used to manipulate how much child maintenance is paid. CM is a percentage of income and he can make it look like he earns very little by taking little income from the business.

If for example, his suggestion is that he pays into a pension or savings account solely in your name to offset a claim in his business later, then it could be fair depending on the numbers.

I’ve read some shocking stories on here about attitudes towards money after kids. One husband was expecting a woman on maternity leave to pay 50% of bills next month when her maternity pay is dropping to zero. Find out what he really thinks about money by getting a lawyer to read his proposal.

I don't think you can negotiate in heavy penalties for cheating. It wouldn't stand up in court, and besides, she'd have to prove it first.

Quite.

He possibly felt the same way when you said marriage in nonnegotiable for you to have children. Marriage is a legal contract. He’s just laying his terms on the table, like you did. Take it or leave it. It’s up to you.

Right, so you have more money and the pre-nup protected you, the wealthier party, more than the poorer party. This is exactly why the OP shouldn't sign it. When the poorer party is the one taking the financial hit when having kids, and is also the sex who earns less, you can see how it's unfair.

Excellent! Good for her! OP should do the same.

OP, I wouldn't sign your rights away. Women are already the ones financially compromised in marriage because our careers, earning potential, and pensions take a huge hit. I know you say you want to work FT, but you might feel differently when you have children, and what if your husband says that childcare is too expensive for 2 or 3 kids and it makes sense for you not to work? Then you don't have your career AND you've signed your rights away. And what if you have a disabled child and you cannot work?

Pre-nups are incredibly unfair to the poorer party - usually the woman. That's the entire reason why they don't carry much legal weight. But they do carry some weight.

This guy didn't want to marry in the first place, and now that you've insisted on it, he's trying to mitigate the commitment.

Honestly, I really think you can do better.

Crikey, who'd even want to stay in that sort of relationship after that! She must be desperate.

The fact you are having the conversation on these issues in these terms should ring alarm bells.

i would seriously consider having anything to do with him. He sounds dreadful. Imagine him telling you later down the line that he wants to separate. How he treats you now is a reflection of how he would treat you then. He doesn't care about you.

Come on, we all know it's unfair because OP will be the one taking the career and financial hit of having children, and now her fiance wants to take away what rights she does have.

There was a woman, in America of course, who presented her fiance with a list of costs to her for pregnancy, childbirth and raising small children. It'll be online somewhere. He dropped the prenup idea!

You mention he wants you to get a solicitor. This already should tell you that he is not trying to screw you over. Any concerns about childcare costs etc can be part of the prenup (and as others have pointed out, if the prenup is too one sided it will be set aside completely anyway).

Are you just wanting him to want to marry you no matter what? Is that what you are upset about? And its snowballed into the pre nup situation where its become even less romantic.

What does he propose the prenup says?

I agree with the poster who pointed out that you want financial protection to have children, because you are going to carry the burden of that physically and likely career wise too. He wants financial protection for what he's built up. Both of those are sensible points of view.

The question is - how do you see your financial situation changing as you build a family? If he's proposing his business is ring fenced for him forever and the rest is family money that's very different from if he's proposing that the business becomes joint slowly over time and that he puts money aside for you each year you take out of work for the children with a clause that increases that amount if any of your children have special needs.

Can I be a bit cheeky. If you like him and you love him unless you have some source of wealth, you are an unfortunate position. You're fighting now over the past his past. In your future, you would have access to his income. His funds and perhaps a life that you would not have had yourself. Why don't you focus on building that? Rather than seeing what's available to you from his past, you really can I mean, a prenup t drafted that supports what you want.He's just and quite rightfully, so not gonna give you the stuffy built before marriage.Why would he. Because you've insisted on marriage and now you seem to be unhappy that he's protecting himself.It just reads really badly.