Fiancé asking for a prenup

Not a good start to your relationship. There's no trust on either side. Won't end well.

Not a good environment to bring children into. You'll end up one of the many posters who, after sacrificing earning and pension to raise children, soon as you end that intensive 24/7 role he starts guilt tripping you to start working full-time.

His prenup will be useless mind, given UK divorce judges will split things according to housing and children needs, earning potential, current working status.

But I wouldn't expect any divorce to be pleasant for you.

You should end this and find a suitable partner who agrees with you on your role in motherhood and will support it.

Get out now before it all becomes very expensive and horrid for you. This man's not nice.

I don’t think you can get pre nup on ALL possible situations. OP might not get disabled after pregnancy and birth but her health still might be affected and no one can guarantee how quickly she will be able to get back to work. And what about him putting all possible hours into business ? It will affect OP as well. There are a lot of things in life which might affect marriage significantly.
@Aquea I would have look at prenup to get an idea what he wanted but I wouldn’t start wedding preparation before resolving this. Sign it first ( if you want) and only then concentrate on your wedding.

I think the prenup is a good idea. However, there are ways of legally protecting yourself without marriage. I am however concerned that you appear to have said 'no marriage, no children' so is this a love match or a business arrangement? Also how do you know you can have/ carry these children? Have you both been checked over? Because this all sounds v clinical and if your protecting your finances then you should consider checking you can actually do this. Everyone assumes they can have children and plan their lives around it, but often there are nasty shocks. So my advice is to be checked over physically if this is a marriage for the basis of having children. But from the perspective of a divorcee who escaped with my house and pension pot intact, I would recommend a pre up. But do you love him?

Sounds like a toxic relationship from both sides and you both don’t exactly sound happy?!

Haven’t read the whole thread, OP, but while I can see this feels unromantic on the face of it, I think your fiancé is just being pragmatic. You’ve only been together two years, he’s built his business and he’s doing what he can to protect that (and as many posters have pointed out, any agreement would presumably protect your position also).

My parents sadly died young and as a result I came into my marriage with a fairly large inheritance. An older and wiser friend of my parents advised a basic pre-nup. I remember eyerolling slightly at the time, but my DH happily signed it. I used the money to buy a family house - we are still together but you just can’t predict the future.

Put it this way, if he’d started shagging his colleague a year after we got hitched and our marriage broke down, imagine if I’d had to then legally argue against him taking half of the value of the house I’d bought?! A prenup means, broadly, situations like that cannot arise.

Prenups are “legal” in England and Wales, provided that both parties have had independent legal advice, the agreement was freely entered into at least a month before the marriage, both parties had full financial disclosure from the other; and the terms are fair and don’t leave either party in real financial need.

Provision for children is determined at the time of separation and prenup terms which do not make adequate provision for the child(ren) are not enforceable. All the more so for any disabled child, whose needs may change a lot more over time.

None of the reasons given on this thread as being reasons not to agree in principle to a prenup are valid reasons, because no one has to enter into a contract the terms of which they do not agree with. Just as the prospective husband in this case does not have to enter a marriage contract, the uncertain financial outcome of which HE does not agree with.

I almost feel like ive had to push him to marry me.

Well, you have. You haven't done anything wrong but the fact is that you are now engaged, because you pushed for it. Twisted his arm. Several people have done the same, but there is little wonder then that yoi feel that the shine has been taken off it.

I think you need to have a long hard think about what you want to do. I also think you need to have a proper conversation about how you feel and so that you can find out how he feels about a life long commitment to YOU and your future children.

Why was getting married before having children so important to you? In your words “Just for legal protection.” For your future.

@madrush Have you not read the many threads on mumsnet from women who have been financially screwed because they are not married to the father of their children?

Unless the woman is financially independent it really isn't a good idea to have children without getting married first.

Marriage is first and foremost a legal contract which comes with obligations. I think @Aquea is being sensible.

I also think that this is not the man for her. The whole relationship sounds transactional and it sounds like there is no love in it.

But isn't that precisely undermining the legal protection you want from marriage?

I seriously don't understand why you want to marry this man. But if you do want to go ahead then:

1. Get your own solicitor
2. Make sure you fully understand what he is putting in the prenup
3. Set out your requirements for a prenup (that might be things like payments into your pension if you are not working due to childcare responsibilities, and a 50% share of any business he develops during the marriage)

Good luck op.

This.
He has shown you who he is - take note. He sounds reluctant to be married before you even think about the prenup…

I think he's sensible. Around 50% of marriages fail. 50%. I wouldn't bank my business and the livelihood of all those people on a 50:50. People, for the most part, get married because they love the other person and want a life together but with those statistics it would be reckless not to protect his assets, his livelihood and the livelihoods of his employees. Morally, you shouldn't get 1/2 of his business. However, I'd make sure it's fair. You should get 1/2 of what is built during the marriage and it should provide for you and the children in event of divorce. If its not fair it won't be worth the paper it's written on anyways.

Make sure the prenup protects your interests as much as his. You really don't need to view it as a negative.
If discussions around the prenup lead you to realise that you want more protection from marriage than he is prepared to offer, that does not mean that either of you are "wrong" - just that you have different ideas of what a marriage means. Best to know that now before committing.

So stop fearing it - it's just communication and you need to be able to do that.

I would leave, because although the prenup would not be legal in the UK, this would show how little he would appreciate the investment you would be making in having his children.

the only way he can continue to grow his business uninterrupted would be because of you providing childcare and housekeeping services (even if you are employed too). Yet in his mind you should have no stake in that growth. Ever.

This is not a man to have children with.

Good for him.
He is protecting the business that he built without any help from you and he is protecting the 35 people who work for him. He has a duty to them.

As with most pre nups there will be future caveats drawn into it - with regards to children, who pays for what, and what happens if the marriage breaks down.
Ensure you have discusssions about what happens financially during pregnancy/maternity/ if you have a disabled child and have to give up your career.
Protect your own interests but don’t blame him for protecting his and for looking after his employees,

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good.

It's all very well to say that you want to work fulltime. Lots of women do. But the reality is often different. Suppose you have two young children. How exactly will they be cared for while you work fulltime and commute? Your children wont see much of either of you. Presumably your husband works long hours and the needs of his job have to come first. So is your husband really going to make it possible for you to work fulltime, by taking a full share of the childcare responsibility? Can he really do that? Can he take random days off work if a child is ill? Can he take your children to childcare or collect them reliably? Can you afford a fulltime nanny and backup childcare? Is that what you both want? What happens when they start school and the school days before 3pm?

Yes there are nurseries and after-school clubs and childminders but someone has to arrange all that and most childcare has fixed hours. And if your child going to nursery who is going to talk to the nursery staff, what if there's a problem? Who is going to manage your child's social life when they get invited to parties and round to play? What about all the extra stuff like open days and parents' evenings and school plays?

I know a lot of women manage to work fulltime. But they don't have easy time of it. And with your husband's income you probably wont have to. You could be in the position of your husband not wanting/able to step in, you feeling exhausted and wanting to go part-time or take time out so that you can be there for the children... and you knowing that if you don't work fulltime and anything goes wrong in your marriage you're financially screwed. Many women take that hit. I don't see why you should, though. You don't want to have to beg him to support you to care properly for the children and him seeing this as him doing you a favour and you taking advantage. And the number of men who still think that if a woman "wants" to work then childcare all comes out of her wages is shocking.

As for the pre-nup - before you sign anything ask your husband to explain what he has asked for the pre-nup to say, in plain English. Then take it to a solicitor of your own and see if the pre-nup really means exactly that, and if there are any wrinkles.

Give your husband (and the solicitor) a few what-ifs:

• what if you get divorced after two years?
• what if you get divorced after twenty years?
• what if you can't have children and instead you have a high-flying career that earns you millions?
• what if you have a child with a disability that means you can't earn?
• what if you have children and can't or don't want to work fulltime (see above)?
• what if you get a health condition that means you can't earn?
• what if you have children and have to take a fulltime but more flexible job that is lower paid?

If he is a good man then your husband should want to make sure that you are both protected in the case of divorce. And that your contribution to the marriage is recognised.

But anyway, something is "off" about this marriage. The pre-nup may only be a trigger and not the main problem but you wouldn't be feeling sick if all was well.

fiancé basically says he wants to make sure his business is protected in the event of a divorce.

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned as I’ve only skimmed the thread past the first page. But I think it’s particularly problematic when you’re talking about protecting a business in this context. Because that’s not a static asset that you can basically forget about (eg in the event of divorce, my aunt’s inheritance stays with me). It’s an ongoing project, ongoing throughout the marriage. And the OP will be supporting him in that if they’re a family unit - if he’s late home from work and she’s looking after the kids, then she’s supporting him with his business. And I can see the potential for that to leave a very nasty taste in the long term (especially if it’s leaving a bitter taste already). OP - if your guy is telling you that this isn’t right, then that’s the best indication you’ll get. I’d reconsider this relationship. Even just ask for some time out to get your thoughts in order and see how you want to go forward.

If it’s hard now, it’s only going to get harder, especially after children.
I’d bail.

Just make sure the prenup protects you as much as him. It sounds distinctly possible that his business won't make it whilst in future years you could have a good solid career.

Sorry to hear this. This is why I say more women need to protect their assets.

I hope karma gets him.

💐

How many prenups have you “seen”?

It’s very sensible of him to protect the business he has built long before you were in the picture. It’s not romantic but it’s a fact of life thst people do split up. You’ve done the same by insisting on marriage. You are not in a romantic film yiu are in real life. This is real life. You have a choice:

make sure the pre-nup
has provision for you based in length of time married and children maintenance

walk away

you know deep
down you would have done the same.

No, it was far from easy. It was emotionally devastating. But the legal and financial process was straightforward.

As someone about to lose all the money my grandparents gifted me because I didn’t want to upset anyone by mentioning a prenup because ex said he wouldn’t come after my money, I wish I’d asked him to sign a prenup.

You have literally no idea how wealthy he is 🤦🏻‍♀️

Because the judge would split the assets accordingly in that scenario!

Pre-nups are complementary, not standalone!

Your question proves you don’t know how they work.