Fiancé asking for a prenup

It really depends on what you include in it.

If it is purely to declare the business as separate to marital assets and no more I don't see an issue with this. He is protecting the livelihood of his employees and being responsible.

Any money moving from the business to a personal account would then instantly become a martial asset etc. If he was trying to protect that as well I would have more concerns.

To be acknowledged in UK law you have to have the independent solicitor advice you are discussing and a good one will run through all of the 'what if' questions and ensure you are treated fairly. Sometimes as you are not the one requesting it they ensure in reality if anything it is slightly in your favour.

It isn't romantic but if it is purely to keep the business separate he is making a responsible business decision and you shouldn't let this ruin things for you.

I don’t see a problem with the prenup in itself, it seems sensible and not that different to you thinking about how to protect yourself.

I do think it’s important to notice how you’re feeling about it though and reflect on that. What’s behind it? Is it insecurity for you or is it raising something about him you’re unsure of.

If you feel you’ve had to push toward marriage for example, is that because you worry he doesn’t love you enough or you fear his commitment to you?

Not everyone wants to be married or feels that’s important so that’s not a warning sign in itself but are there others?

I wouldn’t have a problem with a pre nup in theory but I would damn well make sure it protected me as much as him and had to be reviewed every 5 years/after each child and if the whole discussion had been raised in a different way.

Having said that - this man is not your person; that screams off the page. Nobody should pressured into marriage - it never ends well. (ask me how I know!) If he wanted to marry you then you would be in doubt about it.

Because men are already in a stronger position by not having the risks of pregnancy, injury and impacts on their career and pension.

They have the easy ride of parenthood - just minimum CM worst case, many don’t even bother to visit their own dc after separation, much less raise them or parent them.

The inequality could not be starker when some couples split, and to go into a planned future without a guaranteed arrangement to house, provide for and feed and care for a child/children is utter lunacy. Op could be left with multiple children on her own in just the shoes she is standing in. I wish people would wise up.

In this scenario this specimen is already prioritising himself over and above both op and his future children. Red flags should be waving! 🚩🚩🚩🚩

So he built this business before meeting you.

id say he has every right to want to protect that. A divorce could destroy his business and put 35 people out of work.

talk to him and work out what the prenup would mean, and indeed discuss how things would be re children and what would happen in the event of a birth injury preventing you from resuming your career etc. go into this with your eyes open, and make sure things are fair. Prenups aren’t binding in the uk, but judges can take the intentions into account and grant them if both sides are happy.

People getting divorced generally try to maximise their personal financial position. That is the case regardless of a prenup. So I’m not sure what your point is. Sure, divorce isn’t great for kids, but if it’s going to happen then it’s going to happen.

Your career will take a huge bash if you are planning on having children and if you are signing away your rights to everything you are losing everything, he is losing nothing. Should your .marriage break up you will bear huge childcare costs and find it difficult to work at all.
I'd bin this one. He doesn't sound worth it. I wouldn't marry anyone who could potentially make my life worse than it is now.

OP do you have your own investments and assets (savings, a home) etc? If so are you able to value them? You say his business isn’t worth much, so potentially any prenup would see you not get a split of this tightly-margined company? Assuming you bought a property together and both names are on the deeds, I can’t see how a matrimonial home would be anything other than 50/50 split of equity in event of a break up. Is there something else that concerns you? Alternatively, why don’t you say no to prenup and children and see how your fiancé responds? As to other comments about 2 years being a long relationship, what a laugh, I’ve got pairs of M&S tights I’ve known for longer…

Possibly because this particular man wanted her to have children outside of marriage, and when that did not work only then started talking about pre-nups.

I think it's super sensible to get this stuff sorted out before kids or marriage (I never was a starry eyed romantic). However, it's telling that he would have been happy for her to bear his children outside marriage, but now that marriage is on the cards he's "lawyering up". Is OP comfortable with his views and actions around how and by whom the risks were to be born in those two different scenarios. I would not be.

He has people's jobs to protect. Many business owners work long hours and divorce is not uncommon

I think your mixing your feeling of pre nup and sorting financial side with his general reluctance to get married

English courts do not have an unqualified “choice” as to whether to enforce the terms of a prenup which has been validly entered into in compliance with the criteria set out in my earlier post. They will only not enforce a prenup if those criteria are not present.

Nonsense. Companies aren't just liquidated on divorce, they're sold. And in most sales, the new owners are keen to retain good workers.

Because men aren't usually the ones who lose out in terms of career when children arrive. Men don't generally need protection, because they can work unhindered by fatherhood. This one is more concerned about the cost to himself of marriage and kids, rather than the cost to his wife.

The children's emotional interests aren't covered in a pre nup though are they? Their parents' marriage based on a starting position of mistrust not authentic love and protection of one another. More, if it goes belly up, how can I screw your Mother over in the future!

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

So why are you with him? I would not want to marry anybody who did not share my views on marriage.

My issue with this is, how enforceable is a pre-nup... not very would be the answer following a cursory glance. I can understand you wishing to avail yourself of the primary protections that marriage bestows, but currently his insistence to do this has red-flags and it feels as though he is setting it up to fail. So my advice is to walk away.

He is being responsible, he also has to make sure his employees are safe in their jobs.

Narrowly viewed, I'd have to agree with you. However, since it is the mother who takes ALL of the physical risk of child bearing, as well as the lion's share of the psychological risk (PPD, PPM etc), it's in most children's interests that the mother be well protected. This is probably one of the reasons that UK courts do not take pre-nups into consideration unless they choose to.

I'm sorry, I really don't get this. You're protecting your future and he's protecting his. As much as we all want romance and lifetime relationships, we all know they don't always work out. Bitterness seeps in and I hear of horror stories all the time.
Mumsnetters always say to ensure that us women don't leave ourselves unprotected when having children/moving in with someone, which is rightly so but why does it feel cold and transactional when it is the man doing it?

I agree with you in that I also would not have children outside of wedlock (in fact I chose to forego children full stop rather than that) but it seems like his objection to marriage is financial risk, hence the pre-nup. Marriage is a contract and while I would not be opposed you really need to make sure you are on the same page financially. Definitely you should be doing pre-marital counselling and also consult your own legal advice for the pre-nup. Also consider what happens with kids, if you have to adjust the way you do paid work and if the pre-nup recognises that. But things can change dramatically once kids arrive and is he ready for you to be viewed as “one unit” or does he see you both retaining your independence within marriage.

OP, you are being wise thinking of negative scenarios in getting married. He is being wise thinking of the same. It really is the same.

i can’t judge whether this is a good man or the relationship is right for you. You haven’t given enough info. But I don’t think the prenup is proof that it’s not right.

the terms of the prenup matter a lot. It’s a very sensible and pragmatic thing to do before a marriage in which assets are unequal. Especially so when he has employees in his company. In fact, I’d say it was irresponsible of him not to if he didn’t. Companies can get split up and torn apart in a divorce, jeopardising the livelihood of 35 People. If he has a proper board, I would think they would even insist on a prenup.

I would not think of this as a lack of trust- marriages can fail for numerous reasons- they simply do statistically. Doesn’t mean he thinks you are after his money. I’m sure if he thought that, he wouldn’t be marrying you. It just means you need a plan that you both agree on in the case that this doesn’t work out. I went through divorce without a prenup and in many ways I wished I had one (even though he had more family assets), because the pain, trauma and legal expense of wrangling over what happens financially is huge, on top of th pain of the split up.

I am remarried and I have one now. This time, I have more assets. And it was simply a way of clarifying that big part of our lives and how we both saw it. It’s not legally binding in the uk, but it helped us have the right conversations before and it’s reasonable so is highly likely to stand if it is ever needed.

However, the conditions are vital to look at properly- and yes you need your own solicitor. There are some prenups that basically just suggest the person doesn’t get anything. You mustn’t sign that.. If you are planning to have children, you can assume you will be sacrificing your career and earning power and massively contributing to his ongoing success professionally. So it should instead lay out very fair provision for yourself and the children, which I would think would overemphasize your share of disposable assets, while protecting his company from being split up or having you have an ongoing controlling role in it.

I know it’s not nice to think about. And I’d advise do it early, so you can then relax into plenty of romantic time before the wedding. Then you are free to feel and decide if this is the right thing for you. But I would t make the prenup the deal breaker.

I think you should walk away, OP. He is going into marriage with the mindset that it's his business, and in the event of divorce he should keep all the assets and proceeds of this business. So you have kids, your career is impacted, he devotes himself to his business while you keep the family fed and dressed. And at the end he gets to walk away with the business your labour has allowed to thrive.

Put it this way. If this guy decided he wanted kids, but with no wife involved, how much would he have to pay to a surrogate, then to nannies and housekeepers so he could carry on running his business? Kids are really, really expensive in terms of time and money, but it sounds like he wants to have them entirely at your expense.

Prenups are 100% taken into account- especially in a short marriage. If you’ve been married 25 years there’s a good argument to disregard them. If you’re divorcing after 5 years the court would 100% take them into account.

If it seems.s like an uphill battle now, marriage might be "downhill, fast".
It's not easy. You have to really want to be together. There are bound to be other guys out there who would jump at the chance of marrying you?