Fiancé asking for a prenup

A lot will depend on what the prenup says.

But I wouldn’t like this either and it would be a big unromantic red flag for me. Having to convince him that marriage comes before children would also be a red flag.

The principal behind a prenup is not the same as recognising the financial protection of marriage. It’s the direct opposite.

Marriage recognises that you are a family and have pooled resources. It recognises that one partner may not earn as much as the other, or one may become ill, or one may take time off to care for children, and the protection goes both ways. That is a marriage and that is what family does.

He sounds cynical and untrusting.

It's the correct thing to do, to protect one's business.

Most people do not lose their earning capacity and job if they divorce. People who have built up their own business stand to lose their job if they do not have a legal agreement in place.
Why would you not sign it?
Supposedly it will protect anything you own before marriage too.
If you are upset about protecting your spouse's business, maybe you don't care about him enough to marry.

But you are asking for a legal contract that lays it all out. Because that is what marriage is. One big all encompassing nuptial agreement entirely based on money. He wants to add to it with a further agreement that fits his circumstances.

All the romantic vows, which are purely ceremonial, don’t change the fact that marriage is a nuptial agreement and it is transactional.

I agree with others.
You've said ‘marriage before kids’ so you ‘don’t get screwed’. He wants a prenup so he doesn’t get screwed.
Simple.

This.

And it strikes me that he might want the pre nup because he thinks (even if wrongly) it will help him avoid you having the financial protections you are marrying in order to achieve.

"Take him to the cleaners" is not uncommon on this site. As I pointed out earlier, if OP had the business, posters would be urging her to protect it as apremarital asset. It's reasonable and sensible that he would do the same.

It's up to OP to decide if it's acceptable to her.

Dump him .There are plenty of men that understand the sacrifice a woman makes for them when they carry their children and are happy to marry.

I can understand prenups for already divorced/widowed people who have dependants already and assets that need ringfencing for them. But this guy sounds like the kind that watched too many 'she's only after your money bro, make sure she gets nothing if she wants to escape bro' podcasts. They will never be happily married, best to move on.

A relative of mine signed a pre-nup. I would advise caution because of what happened to her. He was ok, but a bit of a cold character before the wedding. After the wedding he gradually got more and more controlling, she had no access to his finances, she got pregnant and he coerced her to be a SAHM because he could afford it. He paid her a very small amount of money and that was all she had access to, cut her off from her friends, every decision was made by him. He engineered situations to cause conflict between her and people she cared about. He controlled who she spoke to and where she went. I haven’t seen her in many years because I was one of the ones that got frozen out.

Your BF might just be protecting his finances, but it can also be a sign that he’s controlling.

@Jamjarcandlestick "he’d just want his Lego back" is the best thing I've read on MN in a long time, thank you 😄

He's thinking about his financial position in event of divorce. Sensible.
You should think about your financial position in the event that you both decided your child / children needed you to be sahm. I know it's not what youre planning, but you'd be wise to find out if he would be sharing his income with you in that situation. These things need discussing. You getting your own solicitor for prenuptial is great idea. What if his business grows loads after you are married? What if that was only possible because you took care of the kids?

How old are you OP and how many fertile years do you have left? Is it overly influencing you to "settle down"?

Given you have been together for a short time, and had shown fundamentally different views on some big issues, I think that some joint counselling would really benefit you to explore how you see your respective roles in a marriage and parenthood. Better now than in five years' time when you are fighting him for child maintenance in the divorce courts (he's self-employed so can represent his income as anything he likes for the purposes of CM).

I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but marriage and children are life-altering decisions and you should treat it as such.

He doesn't seem keen.

I'd also be finding out a bit more about his business. Have you looked at his annual accounts? You don't want to be potentially making yourself responsible for a failing business with debts.

Yes but that's probably a male pride thing.

Nonsense really. Without the detail of his proposed pre-nup, we have no idea if he's seeking to protect just himself, or make fair provision for OP and any children in the event that they divorce. We can probably guess though, as he didn't want to marry and wanted OP to bear all the risk alone.

Why did the men get married then?

Indeed. Another day of Mansnet!

I'd never sign a pre-nup.

Either he's all in, or he's not.

From a logical point of view, it sounds really sensible of him and it’s good to be building a life with someone who is practical and has their head screwed on to all eventualities. To be honest, you sound very similar. You wanting to get married for legal protection, to me is exactly the same as him wanting a prenup to legally protect his business. It’s not just his business, but also the livelihood of his 35 employees he’s thinking about.
Just make sure the prenup benefits you, you’re not allowed anything he built up pre you, but everything since you the prenup would give you access to. Make sure the prenup takes into account the hit to your pension etc when having children and your loss of earnings.

I don’t really think this is the core issue though. I feel for you. I feel you wanted a romantic journey and love story from the start and it’s just not played out that way for the both of you.

I hate when people think a prenuptial agreement is a bad thing. It should protect you as much as it protects your partner.

My husband and I got married and bought a house together. Because I was furloughed, I couldn’t qualify for a mortgage, so it was all in his name. We also made a very significant down payment. I asked him if he wanted me to sign anything—I said, “It was all your savings, and you’re the one paying the mortgage (we combine everything, but your income is much much higher). If you don’t want me to end up with half of everything, I’m happy to sign.” He told me not to, and I would have been fine either way.

I am happy to have a prenup, but I would not want to have completely separate everything. These are the things that need to be discussed: He built a business—it’s his. I’d be happy to sign a document saying I don’t get anything from the business, but there are other considerations. How much salary will he pay himself? Would we combine that with our shared budget, or keep it separate?
If the business continues to be successful, will the children inherit it? What if he passes away before the children reach legal age—who would run it?

Have a conversation, get a prenup, review it with a lawyer, and sign it if you think it’s reasonable.

To be fair, if you are young sounds more interesting than someone thinking about an Excel spreadsheet or investment portfolio (depending on the level of wealth we are talking about) when making love/sex to you.

Due to some very unfortunate events I inherited a house and assets equaling around half a mill in my mid twenties. Whilst not a champagne lifestyle I don’t have to worry about a mortgage each month.

My ex wanted us to get married but refused the idea of a prenup due to him thinking it was unromantic/if I was planning a divorce to not to bother etc. My argument that was I putting a half a million pound deposit down and I’d hate the idea of my childhood home being used against me. I dodged a bullet with him, maybe I knew deep down he wasn’t ‘the one’ or he knew that I’d eventually have enough of his bullshit. When I did dump him he cried leaving the house that he was a man in his thirties having to move back to his childhood bedroom without a pot to piss in… he never paid me rent/board, I said to him for him living here rent free he could save to get his own house to rent out. Oh boy did I see his true colours and know I dodged a bullet.

My husband is completely different breed of man. Insisted on a prenup as he didn’t want anyone thinking he was marrying me for my money/wanted to marry me for me. He kept chasing me to sort it out but with the busyness of organising the wedding I didn’t bother. He’s a good man, I know he wouldn’t touch the house, he’d just want his Lego back. He also still owns his house (mortgaged) which we’re renting out/rent is paying off the mortgage.

Maybe it has become old and boring because you keep ignoring that pre-nups are meant to offer protection to both parties, hence OP getting her own lawyer to draft it for her.

You repeatedly assuming pre-nup means woman walks away with nothing despite babies is just not the case.

I agree and if you are young/ish, where's the fun in the relationship, the spontaneity must be non existent if he's this transactional, the clichés, adoration, romantic gestures, slightly obsessive shimmer with life at that stage, if they don't, to me, it wouldn't be worth it!