To think most mums end up a 'burden'....

Ermmm... so mothers are a burden but fathers are what?

I think references to mothers is because older women are often widowed/divorced and live alone.

The old boys seem to move on from the late/ex-wife a lot quicker - so dad becomes the burden of his new partner!

I most certainly am not a burden to my adult sons, in fact the opposite, and they both live abroad so I'm even less of a non-burden burden!

No one in my close friend group of five, all 70-somethings, is a burden either, in fact two are still doing child care. We are all active and in good nick, and only recently gave up work - one day we might become dependent/burdensome, who knows.

Well you say that, but even a fantastic Mum can become dependent and time-and-energy consuming eventually, just because of the realities of old age. My strategy to minimise that for my kids is to keep as physically fit as I can.

You can't guarantee anything but if you are present for your children and they tell you they love you ever day then you're on track.

My child says she loves me as soon as she wakes up. I actually believe she will want to look after me, but I'm spending the next few decades ensuring she doesn't have to and knows it.

This worries me too OP although my daughters are still young children. My own mother is fun and we talk every single day. I see her at least once a week. However, she does stress me out a lot. It started when I had kids and she couldn’t really get past this idea that because she’s been around longer she knows more by default, and is therefore above me on the totem pole of authority and expertise. Her little criticisms grind me down and have damaged by self esteem. I am confident she doesn’t realise.
I hope that if my husband and I spend time making sure our partnership stays strong and happy over the years, that I won’t crumble when the girls leave home, stuck with someone I actually don’t know or like anymore, when family obligations no longer take so much of our time.

Exactly - if you read this forum you will have an impression that most of British daughters don't even want to spend Christmas with their mothers. But I don't think this is what it looks like in most of the country.

You get the problems on here not the families that work well

Well, my mother is a raging narcissist, another country, upbringing of the eighties and nineties.
I was an only kid, both of them were really absent.
Of course she's a burden now, at 83, sitting in her massive family apartment in one of the most lucrative cities in Europe.
She was no mother to me and I only keep it civil for the inheritance.
Here's your eye roll. 🙄

How to avoid it? Be a better, more involved parent.
Don't try to change your childrens' personality.
They tried, but didn't succeed with some of us. 😊

This is so true and excellent advice on handling a difficult relationship with ones parent(s) from childhood.
I have a cousin who had a terrible childhood due to parents alcoholism and many other issues/abuses and I can tell she has been through a lot of (good) therapy and is at a place where she sees her mum (no longer drinking) couple of times a year but very much on her terms and has gone on to have a fabulous relationship with her own spouse and kids.
Therapy is key to recover from a childhood damaged by abuse or neglect.

There is a difference between a mother who is striving to engage with life in the face of the challenges of aging, and a mother whose body has reached the point of decrepitude where that engagement becomes impossible. Being a burden to someone, whether paid or family, becomes inevitable eventually for many.
I think it is important that there is recognition of when that point is reached and the mother should not be judged to have stopped trying when they might simply have reached the end of normal life as they might know and wish it to be.
Aging is characterised by an inexorable catalogue of losses.
It's a total pain in the arse, take it from me!

Yes, possibly but we all get old if we don't pop our clogs first. People should be careful how they treat their parents as their own children are learning how it's done.

I felt the burden of expectations in my teen years. But as an adult we got on well and visiting was never an obligation or burden.
She died at 63 before more care became necessary though and I might have felt differently if there had been expectations of help there.

I think there's definitely something about older women in particular having framed their identity around their children.. but I don't think the dynamic is always quite as you describe. I think often it leads to those older women just being ridiculously over involved in their children's lives and then being pushed away because of that behaviour

My mother gets upset if I make any purchase that I haven't involved her in. Any purchase at all. Like a pair of gloves last week she got upset about. I know so many people who have mothers like this. No one who has a dad who sweats the small stuff in the same way

I think the time that an elderly parent (mum or dad, but we know that women tend to live longer, so it's more likely to be mum) really becomes a difficult burden to carry is when they become entirely dependent (emotionally, practically, socially) on their child. From my own experience and discussions with friends who have been there too, there will often be other family members who drop in very occasionally and are full of ideas of things that 'someone' should do for the elderly person but have lots of reasons why it can't be them. No matter how much you care about your parent, it is stressful and exhausting to be the person who is expected to be available 24/7 for a chat or to deal with crises (real or imagined), organises all their finances, arranges and takes them to every medical appointment, does all their shopping/washing/cleaning- whilst also trying to work and look after your own family. It is easy to feel resentment when the person you are looking after refuses to make any changes that would make things easier, won't consider trying hobbies/passtimes at home or going to social groups, gets angry at the suggestion of finding outside help and complains constantly (to you and to anyone else who will listen) that you don't visit often enough/haven't done [insert non-urgent time consuming task] yet. It's very easy when your parents are fit and well to assume that this could never happen to you but I know too many people in this situation and I think it often destroys the previous relationship. It can feel like your own life is on hold and there is nothing you can do about it short of walking away and letting them fend for themselves (which clearly you won't do).
The things I plan to do, to hopefully avoid being in this situation with my own children are

• don't become entirely dependent on my partner. Keep up a social life of my own, including trying new hobbies/social clubs etc if the I find I can't manage the things I did when I was younger. Try to include people of various ages in my social circle so I don't end up knowing no-one if I outlive my friends from childhood.
• Make sure that I live somewhere that makes it easy to maintain independence and see other people even if I couldn't drive (or have plans for how to do that when the time comes).
• Actively work on not falling behind with the 'modern way' of doing things, whatever that is when I am older, so that I don't become dependent on other people to do simple tasks just because they are not done the same way that I did them in my 40s.
• Ask for help from family if I need it, but be open to changing how/when I do things to fit around their lives. Accept external help where I can so that more of the time I have with my family can be spent doing nice things.
• If/when I find myself alone, I plan to accept all invitations to socialise whether that is from family, existing friends, new acquaintances, local community events etc. Even if I'm not particularly interested in the activity on offer, or feel a bit tired, I have learned from my elderly relatives that being socially active has a huge impact on maintaining health and independence as well as providing something interesting to think about instead of worrying about tiny issues. I will prioritise socialising over everything else, so for example will never refuse to go out for lunch because I have too much washing to do.

I had quite an open and honest conversation with my DM as she’d started to dwell a lot on painful past memories, and they were all she wanted to talk about. I found it very depressing and draining and it made me want to spend less time with her.

I pointed out she’d hated it when her mother did this, and also it was just going to depress her to only focus on sad memories. She took it on board and now makes a real effort not to (and to actually ask how I am, which she’d stopped doing!) If she drifts it, I give her a gentle nudge like “let’s talk about something more cheerful”, and she’ll move on.

It’s made our time together much more pleasant, and I actually look forward to talking to her now.

I had a rubbish childhood both parents pretty useless. I'm very low contact now. I always had to be the parent. My mother has always defaulted to me to do emails/banking/organise house repairs etc anything remotely technology based. Even in her 40s 50s. She provided lots of childcare for one sibling then none to us. She is always the victim. Unfortunately the relationship is all one sided. It's not one I want to pursue.

The biggest gift I gave myself and my children is doing all the therapy I needed so I am free to be a positive independent person. Not seeking validation or wanting to tear anyone down. Not wanting to control anyone. I know what healthy boundaries look like. I can have the uncomfortable conversations. Take critisms reflect on them. I'm self aware. I have healthy expectations of my children and our relationships as we both grow. I also have healthy passions and interests that I'm very excited to pursue when mine are older! There is nothing me or my husband can't do that the other can so that won't hold us back. We also plan to keep ourselves as fit and able bodied as possible. Fingers crossed for health for as long as possible.

I think knowing what healthy relationships look like is a great place to start. I had to learn as I was never shown them. I was however shown all the what not to dos that's been helpful too.

Yeah, I think you're spot on and I've caught myself being this way with my own mother, unfortunately.

Do you have to have her to stay 2/3 nights a week? She sounds utterly unbearable. Do you have siblings to share the burden with?

I’m sorry that life is tough. I do agree that it will come to all of us, however, it sounds like you are doing you’re best to engage with life to the best of your ability.

I don’t honestly think you are the type of parent we are talking about. If you know you know!

My Mum will never be a burden, she's done an awful lot for me and I appreciate her. She's still in her sixties and very lively so we go out together at least once a week. I don't much care for her partner but she adores him but he'll probably get shown the door like the previous two. I hope my DD never thinks I will be a burden I would hate that.
My Father died when I was 20 so no question of him being a burden.

OMG how cheeky were your DS and DIL! Did they apologise to you after your conversation? You must be saving them a fortune and not only were they ungrateful, they actually criticised your behaviour in your own house.

I adore my mum and don't see her as a burden. She will have all of the support she needs from me in her time of need. That women would give her life for me.

Gosh, you need to put in some boundaries to stop her doing this.

“Yes, four days Mum as we’re away from Tuesday.”

Don’t feel guilty if four days is your limit. She’s terribly rude for assuming it’s just okay to do whatever she wants.

Most young people I know - including most of my wider family - are completely self absorbed. Talk about themselves endlessly, and never ask a single question in return.

I was worried about this - my own relationship with my stepmother (my mother died when I was a baby, she raised me) is one of guilt and duty. I didn’t want my kids to think of me like I think of her.

but they are now young adults. Ds lives with me still and we get on perfectly well day to day, and whilst he’s practically independent and pulls his weight as a housemate, he still comes to me for emotional support.

DD lives a hour away and calls me every couple of days because she just wants to chat. And we meet up for lunch and drinks and shows. I love the relationship we have, and know she doesn’t feel I’m a burden

Why does she live with you if things are so difficult??

If your dh is in therapy after his third breakdown as a result of his childhood and her parenting it is extremely unhelpful that she is living there, and probably significantly adding to his poor mental health.