So who is going to be brave enough to ask whether Shabana Mahmood's proposed reforms are right/sensible/racist?

Yeh that’s not going to do it.

@Thatstheheatingon Did you not actually read the thread before commenting; I said earlier their safety is NOT our concern!

Couldn't give a fig where they go as long as they go.

Our safety is paramount - NOT the safety of those arriving illegally who we have no clue about and endangering our own citizens. Arriving from dangerous countries oh yeah let's keep them ! duh...

Stop with the bleeding hearts, that is why we are in such a holy mess right now.

It is long overdue for us to get tough.

Stop putting the safety of unknowns above our own!

Don't have to worry about migrants now. Labour have a new plan, it's called increased incentive payments to leave. What a truly great Gov't we have now.

What do you think makes the place dangerous? Answer: the people. So why accept fairly unvetted immigration from there?

If it's a dangerous place, how is it ok to return someone there to face danger?

She's right I think tbh. Immigration, legal and illegal is ridiculously high and unsustainable.

There's lots we can do in between - obviously tighten up on illegal migration, but as illegal migration is only a small fraction of total immigration we could look at:

• Securely detain those claiming asylum with the proviso that an asylum decision is reached within a two week period. No one is going to complain about being stuck in a barracks for two weeks if they are genuine.
• Get rid of family visas for all student visas. Sure, come here to study, but you can't bring your spouse and children too.
• No working on student visas - no more helping out at your uncle's petrol station 200 miles away from where you are supposedly enrolled at college.
• No grace period after completing your studies - even if you have a job offer from a UK company you need to return home and go through the visa process from there.
• Get rid of family and adult dependent visas for anyone on the health and care worker visa and all the overseas employer visas, make it only available for the global talent visa, innovator founder visa, and the high potential individual visa - basically, only rich people can bring their spouse and children.
• Get rid of the India Young Professionals Visa (agreed as part of our FTA with India)
• Get rid of all adult dependent visas - no more bringing your parents over.
• Increase the period before you can apply for ILR to 10 years.

Of course with a crashing birthrate and a rapidly ageing population implementing all the above is likely to have a severe impact on the economy but at this point I don't think a lot of people really care about that. Still, there will be a lot fewer brown care workers which is what matters right?

It IS our problem once they are in the country. Currently there is no way of sending anyone back to Afghanistan for example, as there are no air routes and we have no agreement with the Taliban to return people. So even if they are unsuccessful in seeking asylum, they are stuck here.

Just today it was announced that we have only managed to return one failed asylum seekers to Namibia, two to DRC and none to Angola, as those countries simply refuse to co-operate.

I think it’s a binary choice between continuing as we are or having immigration at nearly 0. Because unless we tighten up in a far reaching and thorough way, subtle changes will just be open to yet more exploitation. They will always find a loophole or way to break into the country and exercise their ‘right’ to live here.

I think Reform etc will have no choice but to back it. Rupert Lowe has said he will too.

Uhm, it's not a binary choice.

Yes it probably will be necessary, the rebel back benchers defeated the welfare reform bill.

Just heard a soundbite from Badenoch saying they will support the government's proposals. Will it come to that being necessary? Easily forgotten in this period of moaning about Labour but they have a hefty majority. It would take a big backbench rebellion to wipe that out in a vote, and some of those who aren't keen will at least see the even more unpalatable outcome of losing the next general election and act accordingly.

I heard on R4 this morning that over half of successful asylum seekers are not working and are living on benefits. What possible justification can there be for this?

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack care to comment?

Thousands of South Asians came to uk in the 50s and 60s. We invited them here. They now have British born descendants.
They have no relevance at all to boats crossing the channel in 2026 and the new proposals.

Exactly this.

Tell that to the people who have hundreds of Roma in their area from our time in the EU.. Their behaviour and culture is not similar to ours. Many moved here because they didn't assimilate in other parts of Europe. They havevcost local governments a fortune in fly tipping, rubbish clearance, street violence. The left wing MP David Blunkett spoke out about it years ago.

Yes, I think it was the democratisation of welfare by Brown that first sounded the death knell - tax credits for all, replaced by UC now, but still going way further than the idea of a welfare state mainly helping people over a rough patch financially. I would be interested in understanding the correlation between subsidising those on low wages and/or with high rents, and the decimation of UK wage growth and salaries.

I heard on R4 this morning that over half of successful asylum seekers are not working and are living on benefits. What possible justification can there be for this?

I am in favour of the reforms and rate Mahmood considerably higher than most of the Cabinet. I hope this is not another performative gesture, like the rape gangs enquiry, where Labour seems to want to be "seen" to be doing something whilst also giving every indication of sabotaging its own efforts. Either way, the likes of Stella Creasy are bleating already, so I very much doubt it will get past the back benchers.

I think Labour are going in the right direction with this. I support it. But it’ll get scuppered by the virtue signalling back benchers. And then Reform will get in.

Who made up that stat.
If you are talking about me you are incorrect.

Financial conditions at the time were good, not because of him, but his government put in welfare policies which have definitely been a negative for the country.