So who is going to be brave enough to ask whether Shabana Mahmood's proposed reforms are right/sensible/racist?

Get really fed up people suggesting "racism" (for everything!).

She hasn't gone far enough IMO. One thing that stuck out is that in Denmark anyone seeking asylum must be able to pass an exam in Danish language. Same should apply in UK. No one should be living in the country without being able to converse with the natives.

Oh god yeh, I know they don't! But we are kind of stuck with them (not fair to foist them onto another country) and have to keep trying to do whatever it takes to change these backwards men, or at least create fewer of them over time.

At least most men accept that women should have the same basic freedoms as men, even if some of them are utterly disgusting towards us. It's not really the same thing as cultures where there is widespread agreement and adherence to women being denied the same basic rights as men though, is it? In those cultures, as in ours, there will be rapists and murderers and so on, but even the "good" men treat women as second class citizens or even property. We should not be importing this sort of culture. Especially when we're still trying to stamp out the remnants of it from our own culture.

Asian communities (Hindu, Sikh as well as Muslim) have a history of marrying young girls.

Yes, the USA is bad in some states too - and forced to marry their rapists as well because of avoiding stat rape charges. Ugh.

If Ancestry for £40 can tell me I’m 97% NW England then the Govt can pinpoint where these illegal immigrants come from

In all honesty, what influence do these cultures really have on British culture? I mean, we're not forced to go to Mosques or a synagogue, obey their faith or way of life? Sharia law is not legal in the UK, non muslim women are not forced to cover up, there has been no ban of pubs etc.

Vast majority of the fear in the UK is based on, well, untruths.

What we do see is little pockets in the UK where Muslim people are together. But this has always happened! China town in London/Manchester, Little Italy also in London. Windrush in Brixton. These places are celebrated as part of UK's rich history.

if you think all white indigenous British men treat women well, I have a bridge to sell you.

She’s right and I agree with her.

For the record, it was Muslim.

However, I'm genuinely curious - is there an issue with underage "marriages" in other cultures within the UK? I'd have assumed Muslim simply because it's only with certain Muslim cultures I've heard of this being an issue in the UK. (I know in the US there's underage marriages (actually legal, horrifyingly) in some Christian communities.)

Why not? It's a plausible option.

We’re on the same page. I’m simply saying that we need a prohibition on carrying out religious marriages and not registering them. All married women must be afforded the same legal rights. Allowing a parallel society to exist in which women (often mothers) are denied access to the rights written into U.K. law is appalling. They are often not only denied a share of the marital assets, but they are denied custody of their children because the entire divorce is handled by men in their community and they are never told they have other legal rights. If they were legally married and a divorce had to comply with U.K. law then they would also have access to information on their rights to have custody of their children, child maintenance etc.

But we know certain cultures don't share our values. We can see how they treat women, or gay people, for example. It's not "malarkey", it's literally obvious cultural difference.

And whilst I take my hat off to those men for their swift action and bravery - for which they should absolutely be commended, frankly the train bloke is a hero - saving people in various situations doesn't actually mean someone is in agreement with other cultural values. Deeply sexist men may be willing to save lives. (I have no idea about the other values of the men mentioned so don't want to cast aspersions on them specifically - it's more a general point.) I'm sure there's excellent charity work done by fundamentalist christians in the US, but I wouldn't want them moving here and influencing our culture.

No outrage, just wondering why you only mentioned Muslim.

but unregistered marriages are not illegal.

I never said they were. However, again, all marriages in the UK must be registered in order for them to be legal. Without it, they are not legally married (and therefore none of the marital rules apply). The rest is just religious ceremony. God, I could marry my toaster tomorrow and it means nothing unless it's recognised legally.

Hmm. You seem to have a reasonable command of rhetoric yourself. Just try not to lean into the pathos so much.

In my opinion, the process of government policy making should be anything from dry to tedious. That immigration debates elicit excited responses is a failure in and of itself.

*recognised

They are legally invalid if not registered, but unregistered marriages are not illegal. There was a case a couple of years ago of a Muslim woman who came here to marry her husband. She didn’t know the nikkah was just a religious ceremony and not a legally redo gilded wedding, so when her husband was adulterous and they divorced she did not have the rights that a legally married woman would have. She tried to sue for half their marital assets, but failed. It was really sad. We shouldn’t allow this to happen to women in our country.

Not outrage, pointing out something incorrect.

@Happyjoe you seem to be making a lot of generalisations about white British men though, no?

Why the outrage? If the bride was under the legal age, I would imagine it to be a religious marriage.

All marriage in the UK are required to be registered. They are not valid if not registered afaik. Therefore it was a ceremony, not a marriage legally.

Edited. To 'marry' a child is called a forced marriage, also illegal.

I’d go further and say I don’t think we should give settled status to people who would not accept their children assimilating into British culture. If people move here and bring their kids up here then they have to accept that their children may choose to marry a local, become an atheist or a Christian, consume foods prohibited in their religion or culture etc. otherwise we end up with parallel societies.

How do you know it was Islamic? A few cultures believe in arranged marriages.

I'm relieved to hear that.
I should have written "married".

There is no angst about us implementing functional immigration policies. There will inevitably be debates about exactly what those should look like.

The "angst" has nothing to do with the idea of having immigration controls, or indeed the debate about what those controls should look like. The "angst" arises from the toxic rhetoric that is unnecessarily brought into that debate.

I appreciate that some people seem to find it difficult to understand that distinction, but it is a very important one.

Could they not be referring to an Islamic ( not legally binding) marriage?