To struggle to see the appeal of full time remote working?

OK. Thanks for your interesting comments. My children are both alive and well if that helps ease your disgust.

I do 3.5 days from home and 1 day in the office. I'd be happy to do fully remote, I see work as something to get out of the way and I dont like how it dominates my whole Thursday. But I have a horse and go to the stables every morning, so do a lot of mundane chatting there so dont need the office for that. My commute is about 50 mins so I waste nearly 2 hours. I think it depends on your personality, your job and what you do outside of work.

Your success within the company shouldn't hinge on whether or not others decide it's not for them. Your success is entirely on you. My God it's like talking to someone who owes her career success to having had an abortion. Just disgusting.

It isn't me who sets the key performance indicators. That's the equity partners and it's driven by what clients want/need.

Fair enough if people decide the requirements are not for them. They can always switch industry if ours is too corporate-dogsbody for them. There are plenty of professions more suited to home working and minimal visibility.

But no, I'm not sorry that other people taking themselves out of the picture has improved my own opportunities for progression. I'm just playing the game in the way that suits me, like most other people. Should I really turn down a promotion because Johnny is cleverer but clients don't want to give him work because they haven't a clue who he is?

I 100% wfh, as I work for an overseas company. I do miss office life, but given that I unexpectedly had to navigate 2 teens dropping out of school with EBSA for 2 years -with all the attendant emails, calls, meetings etc - after the pandemic, I am very grateful to still be holding onto my job. And the kids are both back in education now.

"So people aren't doing themselves any favours by hiding away at home. Oh well, all the more chances for the rest of us."

So just like that you write off perfectly capable human beings because they're not fans of days in the office like you are, and then you celebrate because you think that'll boost your odds of climbing up the rungs?

If they do get let go for not showing enthusiasm for the social theatre that is the office, they might be relieved of being corporate dogs bodies anyway.

Some people might like hybrid yes, but for others it might be the worst of both worlds!

I think it can be good compromise if it’s a genuine choice or to accomplish specific tasks that really cannot be achieved from home. The problem is trying to force people to come in to office when they don’t perceive any benefit to it, but simply because you think you know what is best for them.

Same for me, my work involves personal data so I could never work from a cafe or shared space. It’s a little annoying when it’s always suggested on here as an alternative to office working.

I'm a bit of an aberration because I'm a massive introvert and yet I'd hate to be WFH full time.

I'm hybrid and meant to be in the office 2 days a week and usually stick to that (lots of people don't and seem to be trying to get away with 1 day or 0 days by stealth. It's amazing how some people can only manage to get a dentist appointment on the only days they are meant to be in the office!).

It really does me good to have a change of scene and speak to colleagues and clients in real life. I start to get terrible cabin fever wfh day after day especially in the winter as its a long hours job and by the time I finish it's dark and so I can't really go out for a walk or anything.

In addition our pay rises and bonuses are tied to KPIs including business development which is very hard to do without face to face client stuff, plus visibility is important to the senior partners when considering promotions. So people aren't doing themselves any favours by hiding away at home. Oh well, all the more chances for the rest of us.

To be fair to them, our team is much smaller than it used to be and if it's a week when a few people are on leave or attending a client office, it's possible to go in and see absolutely no immediate colleagues and think "what was the point of that"? Plus my train fare to London is also bloody expensive! I'm less sympathetic to people who live in London and still can't seem to manage to come in ...

It does for me. We have PCs with multiple monitors and need an absolutely silent environment. We are not allowed to work in a public space.

This is the problem really, too many people make vast sweeping generalisations when what they actually mean is this is what I've gleaned based on the people I know.

And actually it would be fine to say, I think in person really is/not essential in my particular line of work based on X and Y, and while I realise it might mean we miss out on some talent I think Z benefits outweigh that. Would be a genuinely useful insight.

Different strokes for different folks, exactly. So therefore mandating that everyone participates in a or b in spite of knowing how they might feel about it is universally a bad move. Allow individuals to choose, or don't complain about a dip in morale or a resignation or two further down the line.

I'm team WFH, by the way.

I was fully remote for 3 years - the last year I felt very isolated but appreciated the easier schools runs etc. I am now hybrid and much prefer this - I like the social side and my office has lots of perks . I do find the commute a time waste though I get more done at home

Well, of course not. Though from this thread alone it’s interesting to see who loves and who hates it.

That’s why hybrid can be the answer. Because of course no one size fits all. But it’s got to be done well - you need a critical mass of people for it to have any point or benefit. It works well at my employer but I know others where it works terribly because it’s badly managed.

I’m glad WFH working out well for you. My opinions are merely based on my observations and conversations with both older and younger colleagues.

That was a lot of words to tell us you don't have an explanation for why you only care about the young workers who fit your preconceived notions, and don't even acknowledge the rest. I hope you don't really believe anyone is fooled by this conveniently timed moral objection, though, as that would be tragic.

But for those reading, this is the hole in the argument about remote work being bad for the young. This sort of blindness comes from people who benefitted from the old system and didn't notice all the people who weren't there in the office with them because the barriers to in person work kept them out.

I love it but my husband also works from home so I am not lonely.

I haven't been in to the office for many years.

This is your own feeling and your own perspective though. Many young people will absolutely love WFH, and find it life enhancing, like I did. Some will hate it, I’m sure.

WFH is not universally “bad” or “good” based on your age. Totally depends on personality and individual situations.

I understand some people would love full time wfh but I hate it - I’m hybrid which is an excellent mix but overall I genuinely enjoy being in the office.
Its real life interactions that I enjoy and nearly went round the bend during a 6 month stretch of wfh on the second wave of covid.

I think you need to step back a bit and park your misplaced rage against me.
I don’t owe you a reply but even if I was going to give you a considered response (and your post needed that and indeed I was still thinking about it) I’m certainly not going to bother now - why would I bother with someone as rude and angry as you?

“The problem with people already established in their careers discussing this issue is that they too often conflate their own experiences when they were a young worker with young people per se. They're not the same thing at all. And you're doing it in your first paragraph too. As if anyone could possibly understand how training works in every role and sector.“

Totally agree with this. I WFH as a “youngster” and absolutely loved it. It will suit some people and not others but please don’t generalise or try to take something good away from others based on your own feelings.

As a 20 something all my colleagues were at a different stage of life. I really wasn’t interested in Sally’s husband woes or whatever and they weren’t interested in staying up til 5 am clubbing. I had friends my own age that lived with me or nearby. I loved working from my bed or sofa in peace and quiet, saving money on lunches and spending more time with my housemates after work instead of on a packed train commuting. It was bliss. I attended week long training courses in person from time to time and collaborated by phone and email. No issues at all.

The positive thing for young people entering the workforce now is that we know which jobs have gone WFH. There are loads of jobs which can never be WFH because of the nature of the role so young office/commute-lovers can go into those fields instead!

Weird the way you didn't actually address the point about young workers who benefit from remote options, though. Almost like you can't...

Ultimtely, if you're against fully remote work per se, you're not pro young worker, you're just pro the young workers who fit your belief. You've shown no concern at all for any young worker who benefits from the greater availability of remote work. What about the ones who don't have the option to get even a crappy rental near the workplace? No fucks given.

I WFH around 3 days a week. I generally go in to the office 2 days. I’d hate to WFH full time, but there’s no way I could go back to 5 days in the office. I think a bit of both is perfect and I really enjoy my office days, but do virtually no work because of all the chatting and long lunches with colleagues.

I still think that’s an antiquated way of working. It’s also not very structured. Managers can be extremely busy with meetings and other direct reports / other responsibilities. Relying on just seeing that they’re struggling because they are in the same vicinity isn’t exactly the best way I wouldn’t say. I just think new ways of working can be adopted. Perhaps it’s nice to do some in person social time for a new starter to put faces to names and feel comfortable, but not as an actual learning tool in my view.

This - it’s definitely a personality issue.

Extroverts get their energy from being with people and introverts get it from within. So roughly 50% of WFH employees are probably quite content, the other 50% not so much.

I used to be the only one, back in the days of one conference phone in the middle of a table where everyone spoke over each other, no cameras, lots of side conversations etc. It was awful and unproductive.

Then along came COVID, my employer sent everyone home, they introduced Teams. And I was ahead of the learning curve in remote working. Everyone else needed hand holding and emotional support. My career has accelerated massively since then. All of my team are at least partially remote. When there are people in an office room, they still have cameras on and it is a far more level playing field than pre-2020.