To think a lot of MN are ableist?

Our two both have additional needs, our daughter has cerebal palsy, more than one poster told me I was lucky she had been diagnosed as we could give her back to social care, one also sent me a private message about it. They were pregnant, so I imagine they would have dumped their baby at the nearest opportunity, that poster does moan that sometimes nanny isn’t there and they shock horror sometimes have to parent their own child.

A poster once said my husband was an abuser who was faking his (severe) physical disability because he asked me to iron a new bedding set and further proof he was faking it was him having a professional job. His poor professional colleagues have to be in the same room as someone with a disability, how very awful.

Quite a few MNers would have loved hitler.

I think with the post you are referring to - the perceived ableism came from the mums absolute inability to see what her son was doing was impacting the little girl and her absolute gloating that she ‘won’ and her son would be able to continue to invade the girls space even though she was clearly suffering. That little girl and the other thread where the girl had feaces smeared - those children deserve just as much support.

Actually lots of people on that thread were saying we’re saying that a compromise could be found and agreed with suggesting cups with lids, drinking it away from their desks, moving seats etc because everyone mattered, especially jally those who needed coffee due to adhd, ms…etc

Yes, of course they should. My point was in previous editions of the DSM ADHD was a childhood condition. You couldnt be diagnosed as an adult. Now, correctly, you can. Thus, diagnostic criteria has broadened. More people are now being diagnosed. Saying this isnt ableist. Its just a fact.

I don't know why you keep picking on me, and seem to think I am on a war path against disabled people.

Having people who genuinely need help doesn't remove the claims from people who are not genuine, those who get unfair advantage, and play the "mental health" card to get ridiculous adjustments at work, or unlimited holidays and break. We all know people like this. It doesn't mean we dont' know genuine people too.

I don't know why we are ending up speaking about this, because I was talking on a thread about children and schools, but knowing of genuine cases doesn't stop the need to change the system and stop people from getting unfair advantage, and also make sure that the rest of the team doesn't get penalised because of adjustments given to one.

Teachers aren't going to discuss other children with parents.

It really is. Imagine being resentful of a disabled child receiving specialist education or transport to it. Or an adult being diagnosed with adhd. As if the world isn’t difficult enough without this prejudice and ignorance

The term “normal kids” is offensive I agree which is why I did not use it, the point about access arrangements is an option phrased in a tactful way, your snipping rather illustrates this point that discussion is stifled

Oh Simon, don’t come here talking sense and facts. You’re spoiling their fun.

My DS attends a local specialist school run by an educational trust, technically “independent”.

He was thrown out of a private school in Reception, put on a reduced timetable in a leafy MS for 2 academic years, denied a place in the only 2 local specialist LA schools that said they could meet his needs (because they were massively overwhelmed by demand) and eventually given a place at his current school, which is “only” about 7 miles away. He travels by LA funded taxi and is the last to be collected (and first dropped off) because the other kids are from further away. Some have a 90 minute commute each way.

SEN mums are generally superhuman (because we have to be). However, even we would struggle to drive 30-odd miles with our SEN DC in one direction, before schlepping other DC to their MS in the other direction, before 9am, and again at 3.30pm, 5 days a week.

By all means campaign for greater specialist availability locally so SEN kids can use local schools. But until then, don’t remove the one service that actually means those children can receive the correct education.

Of course adults should be able to be diagnosed. Why should women who went under the radar during childhood not get a diagnosis because of previous ignorance?

I agree.

My only point is that the pp was calling someone 'ableist' for simply stating a fact.

Feelings obviously run high on this subject and many others. People read too much into what others are saying. I think that accounts for at least some of the 'ableist' accusations on here.

I like that people can give their uncensored opinions. I appreciate hearing what people actually think.

Also dont understand why people who find mumsnet upsetting spend any time on here at all.

We had a taxi to our primary school as we weren’t near a bus route and our nearest school with space was eleven miles away. Paid transport has been available and widespread for decades.

If this was the one about making adjustments such as sitting by the window, the person having extra time and starting later the very vast majority said this was fine and was reasonable.

The part most people agreed with that didnt seem reasonable is that no one could drink coffee at their desk any longer because the ND person had a sensory concern.

People were reasonable. It wasn’t upsetting to understand that everyone not being able to drink coffee even in flasks wasn’t reasonable.

Reasonable adjustments are perfectly fine and I sincerely hope everyone would agree but it isn’t free license to be unreasonable to everyone else. There is a balance to be had for all
of the employees while still making reasonable adjustments.

I work 40 hours a week and I am in chronic pain.
Unfortunately some of us do have to work, 'able bodied' or not. But sure, you enjoy your luxuries, I don't have time to get my nails done anyway.
Perhaps it's your head that needs a wobble.

I was just going to write this. It is fact that the criteria for both ADHD and Autism has broadened significantly over the past few decades. This means far more people will now be eligible for a diagnosis. Once you have a diagnosis, you are automatically considered disabled.

The threshold was significantly lowered for adult diagnoses of ADHD in 2013 and changes to the DSM-5 also meant the Autism expanded to include more of those with milder traits. The scientific community is absolutely not in agreement that these were good changes and there are many experts that the criteria has now been broadened too far and this is disadvantaging those that have more significant traits as well as inappropriately labeling those with relatively mild struggles as disabled. This is especially worrying when virtually all of the population will struggle with ND traits so it is very important we set the threshold at the right level to differentiate people's suitably.

Im aware. I was one. I didn't become disabled on a lightswitch flick. Im 44, I've had spinal issues since I was 17, I've only been disabled enough to claim pip in the last 15 months.
I would still rather be me 15mo ago than me now.

You’ve missed where I said they referred to the ‘normal kids’ which was my point. That was the ableism. Funny that someone with your attitude completely missed it.

the lack of transparency doesn't help

Parents got rightly annoyed when one teacher and one TA spend an excessive amount of time with one (or 2) child(ren).

what they are not told, is when the TA has been employed with the funding given for the SEND child. So in effect, any time that TA spends wit the rest of the class is a bonus, that only happens because of that SEND funding.

Parents are not ableist to complain about their own child being unsupported, but would also understand why a TA spends most (instead of all) time with the SEND child they've been funded to work with.

ADHD is not only a childhood condition though. And it’s not something you grow out of. Therefore adults, undiagnosed as children, still have adhd. They still struggle with the same issues as children do and still, in some cases, require support and accommodations. More research into neurodivergence has led to more understanding of it. Same as with the physical conditions. It’s progress

YANBU. The ableism against both disabled children and adults is frequently jaw dropping.

There has to be greater scrutiny of the extra time, rest breaks etc etc as this has led in some cases to an unfair advantage with those without being advantaged in some cases. I suspect it has been on some schools and I. Some cases due to parental pressure.

Oh yeah, sorry. I should have mentioned that too.

Non disabled children have a right to school transport. There are loads of children on school buses or given free passes to public buses. There even non disabled chikdren in taxis if the closest available school to them was some distance away, but not enough demand for a whole bus/minibus from thier location to the centrally allocated school.

I do wonder how we got here where the state/goverment seem to be responsible for paying for practically everything.

Don't have your own house - go to the council. If they don't have a house they will pay for you to go to travel inn until they find you one
Don't have a job - go to the benefits office. Remember to get your free council tax and free dental care and whatever else you are entitled to
Have elderly parents - get the goverment to pay for them
Have a disabled child - get the goverment to pay for them
Have poor MH - get the goverment to pay for it
And so on

I mean at what point did people start expecting the goverment (ie other people's taxes) to fund so much stuff?

And you know what happens - people like myself who are not on benefits and fully self supporting find out that actually due to poor MH (which I've had for over 50 years) I can probably actually apply for and get PIP or some other benefit. Whilst my health has no doubt made my life more difficult it did not stop being doing a job of some kind (it's bad enough that on the NHS I qualify for therapy which in todays NHS is no small feat).

So someone like me who feels like claiming a disability benefit is completely wrong and farcical is it seems entitled to it. I don't claim it because it's kind of ridiculas that my level of health entitles me to goverment money. However time and time again I read posts on people getting money for things that are less serious that my own and I think 'fuck it what a mug I am for not claiming it'

So what do you do when you are entitled to benefits according to the rules but you know for a fact that you don't need the money and two while it certainly makes your life more difficult it does not make it impossible to hold down perhaps a basic job. Do you jump on the gravy train because everyone else is getting them so why the fuck not. Or do you not claim them because it just feels morally wrong.

However not claiming makes me feel really resentful to all these people less ill than me who are claiming. This is the problem - the huge welfare state is causing huge resentment amongst a large amount of the population who think the threshold for claiming is so low to be laughable.

I know an elderly person who lived in a mortgage free bungalow with substantial savings. She was in receipt of the state pension plus a private pension. This is what the state said she was entitled to (and yes she claimed it all)

Attendance Allowance - £400 per month
Carers paid for by the council to allow her to stay in her own home - came in 4 times a day to give her medicine and heat up a dinner. The cost to the agency paid by the council was huge.
A family member who 'cared' for her was allowed to claim carers allowance (the family member was doing lots for her including housework, admin, taking her to appointments etc)

None of this was means tested. It seemed ludicrious that someone who was financially independent got this much state help. The person at this stage had a heart issue and could go out socialising/shopping but not manage their own housework it seems. The carers were meant to wash her but she refused to let them. So they were getting paid for something they weren't even doing.