To not want my friends nanny on holiday with us?

Genuinely don't understand the people here saying oh but she gets a free holiday in Spain!! Ffs as if the nanny is going to be allowed certain days off to drink pina coladas by the pool or take herself off to go sightseeing. Or is she? Maybe OP should ask her friend that? Somehow I very much doubt it. It makes naff all difference flying around the world to gorgeous destinations if you are working the entire time you're there, looking after 6 kids and cleaning up mess on repeat.

And honestly the others saying oh so many of you don't understand the cultural norms here, well no I probably don't fully but I have to go abroad a lot for work and if my boss tried to have me sleeping on an airbed in an office I'd be outraged, I expect most of the posters here would too! The fact anyone can try and claim its fine for the nanny because she's Filipino or its normal for house staff in the Middle East is fucking hypocritical and batshit.

I’d be really uncomfortable with this as well and wouldn’t go on the holiday.

If you would like to say something without sounding confrontational, perhaps starting with something along these lines:

"Thanks for letting us know that you're considering bringing x. I have to confess, my instinctive reaction is that it'll change the vibe of the holiday in a negative way, but perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions. Would you mind describing a little more how you'd expect it to work so I can paint a better picture. Just for clarity I'm looking forward to the cooking and hanging out with the kids so can't quite see how it would play out without getting a bit awkward. I can see it would be great for a family holiday though"

Well she's already paid a nanny salary so I wouldn't be doubling that up. Just let your friend crack on with the nanny and enjoy your holiday with your children.

I have no issue with anyone hiring whoever they please to work for them but you treat them right and you pay them properly.
You don’t expect them to be grateful for being allowed to sleep on the floor and look after 3 times the normal amount of kids.
Culture has nothing to do with it. It just all
sounds like a race the bottom. She may come from poverty but she deserves the best you can afford to give her. As you would for a nanny in London.
Why you would trust your most precious people to a woman you have no respect for is beyond me. Treat her better. She holds sway over your children.

It’s quite the opposite, I’m noting the necessity to sit with slight discomfort when we encounter ways of life different from our own.

I had extremely high standards well above legal minimums in the Nannie’s I employed for my own children in the UK. But I am also adult enough to know that norms (and laws) differ throughout the world and that not matching UK standards and expectations does not necessarily mean exploitation in other bits of the world.

If the OP had the slightest evidence that genuine exploitation was occurring (nanny not being given agreed salary, being denied agreed annual leave, having passport withheld, exposed to sexual or physical harassment etc) then I would be saying to end the friendship because why would you want to be friends with someone like that?

But coming on holiday with an employer in the course of your employment is normal nanny practice anywhere in the world. A blowup mattress in a study wouldn’t fly with most UK Nannie’s but is not exploitative. She has not, as far as I can tell said she is expecting the nanny to care for all the children including yours. Whether or not this would be a huge burden probably depends on ages - keeping an eye on 4 x 7-10 year old for example is manageable, 6 x toddlers less so.

It may not be your vibe, but the pearl clutching is ludicrous

That Atlantic article is terribly sad. Awful.

I wasn't referring to the OPs intentions (and didn't see your post), I was referring to a PP's opinion that the OP shouldn't leave her kids with the nanny if she's worried, that noone is forcing her to leave her kids with anyone.
That poster was suggesting OP keep her kids separate. I was saying that likely defeats the purpose of the holiday.

I think OP is best off clarifying what role her friend envisaged for the nanny to take on this shared holiday, to make sure everyone is on board with it.

It's hilarious that people honestly think the situation is too complex for ordinary mortals to understand.

There is some precedence, this is the latest iteration. It's always been exploitative and it always will be.

I know people tangentially who make their riches in KSA. I'm perfectly civil to them, because sometimes it's easier that way, but I can see how they are choosing to become wealthy and I do judge them in my head and they are not people I am interested in knowing on any deeper level because wealth doesn't interest me.

And I would not avail myself of their nanny if she was brought along on my holiday. It's called a moral compass and maybe it's a luxury belief but I can live with that.

Your friend is exploiting her “nanny”

a blow up bed in office is absolutely not acceptable and nor is her expecting to do any tasks for anyone other than the children she is employed to care for.

wtaf is wrong with people.

It's not projecting anything. It's having an opinion on something and voicing that opinion as requested by the OP. We are allowed to have opinions on cultures other than our own.

I agree with this poster. Some of the comments are rather hysterical.

There is a cultural aspect at play here which means many are simply projecting their own perceptions onto a situation that doesn't warrant it.

It sounds as if there isn't enough room for her to stay.

Aren't there rules about extra occupants?

Surely it's a holiday with kids or it isn't?

Is the nanny supposed to shop/cook until your friend wants her kids looking after?

Won't the kids be entertaining themselves most of the time?

This just sounds like "don't make me face the reality of exploitation".

It sounds a bit of show off thing. ‘Look I’m so rich I have a nanny and I’m bringing her on holiday because I’m too important to do menial tasks like looking after my own children’

Agree with all this and I would not want to be part of it!

I would definitely mention to your friend that you're worried that the presence of the nanny might change the vibe, because you three mums are all close but having a fourth person there will change things. Also reassure her that it'll be easier minding the kids with three mums present, it won't be like being at home on your own with the kids. That said, I wouldn't push it if she really insists. She has the right to bring her, and it'll no doubt help her enjoy the holiday more...

One of my aunts brought her nanny on a family holiday once, and my mum and other aunts were very annoyed about it. For exactly the reasons you state. But they got over it, there were still times when it was kind of awkward but it wasn't the end of the world and us kids had an absolute blast.

Employing help is very different to exploiting someone

Of course it's exploitative. The nanny has no employment rights and her employer is tripling her workload as she will be looking after all the children and doesn't even have a proper bedroom with a proper bed.

I hate the normalisation of the exploitation of workers from poor countries in many of the gulf states and the British people who take advantage of this.

It's not hysteria. Some of us just have a problem with people who employ servants, regardless of the situation and how well they may pay or treat them. It's not stopping them, but I will judge them negatively for it.

If that annoys or upsets them, then tough really.

the bit that bothers me is her sleeping on an air mattress in the office.. that feels, very wrong in my mind.

Fair enough if your friend wants to bring her, but she should at least have a proper bed to sleep in!

There is a unwarranted amount of hysteria on this thread driven by people who have never employed a nanny or lived in a country where employing multiple domestic staff is both normal, relatively necessary to manage day to day life (no family help for expats for example, or wraparound care in schools) and expected almost as a responsibility locally as a source of employment for women who would struggle to find alternative kinds of work.

Are you really so unclear on your friend’s character and morals that you want to quiz them about whether they are undertaking modern slavery?

Yes the norms for Filipino Nannies will be different to the Nannie’s I employed in the UK (I did occasionally take one on holiday and they had their own hotel room/ en-suite, were paid overtime for hours above their normal ones and had an extra ‘away from home’ overnight payment). But I imagine standards are also different for the people who grow the food and sew the clothes of almost everyone on this thread and no one has lost sleep on this yet.

I would be astonished if your friend’s nanny isn’t having better time of it with a UK family then in many other employers she could have had in KSA, even if it’s not western employment norms.

Taking a nanny on holiday doesn’t mean she never gets her own holiday. It is likely the nanny will take all her AL in a block and go home to see family. She doesn’t want a random week of AL in KSA.

I would chill, ask her about how it will work in practice (will she eat with you for example) and give the nanny €50 in an envelope at the end of the week

Lots of Filipino domestic workers will support their family with remittances, maybe even build a house back home and retire early. Of course they should be treated well and some are in exploitative situations, but they don't all need a white saviour!

If this lady brings her nanny to Europe from KSA she might need to show a contract proving she's paying a European wage and holiday pay etc during the trip plus cost of visa.

But she has a nanny/maid (full time by the sounds of it) - presumably she does most if not all of the chores, so why would the mum need a holiday from them?

Really? My SIL had a Filipino ‘helper’ when she lived in KSA. From my experience, the helper was part of that group of employees generally called ‘servants’, just as a plumber is part of that group of workers called ‘tradespeople’. It’s not pejorative, it’s just a description of the type of work.