To not want my friends nanny on holiday with us?

Oh no I wouldn't like that at all, can't your friend look after her own children and give the "servant " the week off,

I would be very uncomfortable with this. Why can’t your friend look after her own children on holiday? I understand having a nanny to do the childcare while you’re at work, but not on holiday. Will she have the children dressed nicely and brought to her for an hour before dinner and then taken away again? 🙄. Absolutely not okay to make the nanny sleep on an air bed. She’s being treated like a second class citizen.

I understand your point, and as I said, I'm sure the nanny is being treated fairly in this case (although the blow-up bed in the office sound a bit of a second-class kind of treatment). However, many migrant workers are exploited in KSA, and personally I just wouldn't want to feel I was supporting that regime in any way. So it would bother me, which is the question the OP was asking.

I’ve been around quite a few nanny’s based in KSA. If she does come with your friend don’t allow her to look after anyone else’s kids, treat her well and see if you can give her a break. They work long hours most have their own kids in the Philippines some no older than the ones they’re paid to look after.

I’ve known some who are treated as an extension of the family and some who are the low paid do everything help. Regardless, their life is not their own and they do it to give their own families a better life.

Treat her kindly, even better get your friend to give her the time off.

You’ve got no idea how much the Nanny gets paid? I’ve known people with similar nanny arrangements and the nanny gets paid amounts that are revered on here as though the salary equates to being Elon Musk.

It sound likes an ideal opportunity for the nanny to have a paid holiday back with her own family, or alternatively in a location of her choice rather than being taken to Spain to be exploited by 3 families instead of one. I wouldn’t be part of it.

I agree that many women choose and want this work, even under the conditions that usually apply, however I entirely disagree with your conclusion that it isn’t really exploitation. It absolutely is exploitation.

Children weren’t forced to work in mills and down mines, hundreds of thousands of people “chose” to work up 16 hours a day before legislation prohibiting it came in to force in the 19th century. Some Quaker business owners chose to offer better conditions.

This friend has choices, she could employ a nanny on terms similar to what a nanny and employer expect in Europe or North America. They can probably afford to do that, but they are happy to exploit the situation that exists with migrant workers in the KSA.

Aside from the potential exploitation issue, if you agree to go on a group holiday, then it’s cheeky to ask another person without checking with the other guests first; it changes the whole dynamic.

Second, I would be asking a few questions before making my decision. First, there are no circumstances in which I would countenance the nanny engaging in unpaid labour looking after additional children. And that’s what would effectively happen unless the kids are with the parent 100 per cent of the time and not all running about in a group. You’d need to be very clear about expectations. Nanny will hardly be able to ignore the other children. So you’d have to pay her and ask about rates etc.

Third, it’s just unacceptable to expect nanny to sleep on a blowup bed. Shocking. - a kid maybe yes. Not an adult.

And much depends on the friend’s relationship with and treatment of nanny. Does she in fact hold the position of trusted member of the family? bed suggestion suggests not, but I’d want to guage how friend regards her.

It could be an opportunity for the nanny to see somewhere else, earn some extra cash or have a rest - but alternatively, friend could be treating her as a lesser skivvy.

Yeah this

I'd also be so embarrassed to go on holiday with a woman that sees her kids as a chore, to be avoided, even when she's not even working.

Can she even bring the nanny to Spain? Wouldn’t it be a different type of visa?

Maybe she is more of a housekeeper than nanny, and is happy to be "housekeeping" somewhere else?

Nanny sounds like a posher title than HK, is your friend a bit "Mrs Bouquet"-ish?

I wouldn't have too much of a problem as to me if I was paying for a service like your friend is, I would be happy to take her on holiday with me as long as she was getting fair breaks and I paid for it all.

The nanny is a human being. She may think a blow up bed is luxury, but YOU wouldn't.

The shocking attitude you display towards her and how she should have less access to home comforts shows that yiu think she is a lesser person.

Well, I wouldn't have her looking after my children for all sorts of reasons. She's not my chidren's nanny, insurance, just basic common decency, etc but you can't control what she does.

I'm not sure how enjoyable the holiday will he though if you're expecting to look after your own children and she's expecting the 'hired help' to meak a child free break for you both. Very different dynamic.

My friend's wife was a live in nanny for very wealthy families and she said that many of the parents had become so detached and emotionally distanced from their children that they didn't want to spend any time with them - even on holiday. They didn't find any joy at all in doing anything with the children and she would spend all day doing fun stuff with them whilst the parents had very little involvement.

Like I say, a very different dynamic.

Just because the servant participates pragmatically because they have no other way to get the money, it doesn't mean it isn't exploitative.

I think you can and should say something.
It seems quite probable that the nanny isn't treated as an employee, but as a servant.

At the very minimum you shouldn't be part of or tolerate any illegal arrangement, so she should be treated as an employee according to Spanish law.

If something isn't acceptable for a nanny in Spain, it isn't acceptable for this nanny in Spain.

Just odd that your friend can't even consider parenting her own children on holiday!!

This friend seems to be suggesting her nanny will cook for them all and, I think, help with all the children sometimes. That’s not normal for a nanny at all. If you want that level of service in a villa you would be paying a nanny and a cook/housekeeper. We are taking about a minimum of 6 children under 10 as the two friends have 2 each and OP refers to her children.

Still doubtless the friends will handle all washing up and cleaning ☹️ - Oh wait! Wonderful Dora is happy to do it! Seal clapping all round!

I think I'd at a minimum put my foot down that the nanny has a proper bed and room for the stay, that's incredibly exploitive of your friend and I would judge her lack of consideration for a human (a human who is caring for her precious kids) quite harshly

TBF a migrant worker in KSA working for a British family probably thinks they’ve won the lottery, welfare wise!

I’ve known several Filipino Nannie’s in my time and they’re all pretty pragmatic about working overseas to make money to support their families. So long as they’re being treated well, it’s a job.

They live in a different environment to us, and these jobs can be a means of their families escaping poverty. It isn’t necessarily exploitative.

The nanny might be quite looking forward to the opportunity to visit Spain, for all you know!

Tell your friend you want no truck with the exploitation of overseas domestic workers that is common in the ME. Either she parents her own children on holiday, or you won’t be going.

@Smartiepants79 you put perfectly into words just what I thought _ Nanny doesn't equate to house elf, it's shoddy expecting her to look afted all the kids and not even have a proper bed

It would bother me a lot. I'm sure your friend from KSA is kind and thoughtful employer, but I'd be too concerned for the welfare and rights of migrant domestic workers in KSA in general to enjoy a holiday with her there. It would feel like I was supporting a exploitative set-up.
Also, won't it change the dynamic of the holiday between the 3 of you? Will feel less like a "shared, we're all in it together" kind of vibe.

I would check with your friend that the nanny will be recompensed properly if she ends up looking after all the kids. You can decide if you are part of that recompense (eg if the nanny babysits while you all go out in the evening).

Of course you can say you don’t want to holiday with the nanny! You want to go on holiday with your friends, not with your friends plus a servant.