EMPIRE- did you know this history?

It was a different time.

I think yes there were regrettable things that happened… but, you can’t judge the Victorian era by the standards of today.

And - it wasn’t all bad. Look at the commonwealth, many countries actually like the links to the UK.

And it wasn’t just us - all the Europeans were at it…!

But what do the others say? The Trust and others barely touch on the horror of working class life and yet fall over themselves to issue trite apologies and trigger warnings about slavery and empire. Why are they apologising? Their job is to educate. There is some really great research about empire and slavery and some sites and exhibitions do it really well, and its important. But its not the only exploitation story in history. Do the other sites apologise about exploitation in mining and industry?

Have you read the book, do you know what he actually says in it. Is there anything in his book that you disagree with? You clearly don't like him because he is "a theologian a crank and a Tory peer". 'Hmm, nothing wrong with being a theologian or a Tory peer. I've no idea whether he's a crank or not.
So if the Ethics and Empire project was heavily criticised- who did the criticism? And it's blindingly obvious that he is being slated by those who are keen to push the Evil British Empire narrative. It seems to me that being peer reviewed and not engaging with contemporary scholarship isn't a bad thing, it means you're not a sheep looking for approval and publicity about how liberal you are and attempting to build a career by pandering to what's fashionable in academia. You don't need to be a formal historian to write history books - history books are for everyone to read, not just academics.
You sound as if you would like to have his books banned, because you don't agree with him and he's not following the accepted dogma.
It's good to read books with differing opinions to your own, that's what I did when I was at university

The thread asks whether people were aware of the history explored by David Olusoga in his series ‘Empire’, which focuses on the British empire. I don’t think anyone imagines it was the only one.

Nigel Biggar, whom I knew at Oxford, is not a historian, but a theologian, crank and Tory peer with a background in conservative thinktanks. His book was an output from a widely criticised project called Ethics and Empire — criticised for not engaging with contemporary scholarship, and not being rigorously peer-reviewed. Bloomsbury declined to publish the book after the MS came in and was sent to review. Harper Collins published It almost immediately.I certainly don’t think he had any massive struggle to publish. I don’t know of any historians who would regard it as a serious contribution to knowledge. It’s been described as ‘cartoonish’. A previous book was called In Defence of War. He followed his Colonialism book up with a book on why reparations are unnecessary.

But they were part of a completely interlinked system. How extraordinary to only care about one group of exploiters and exploited. I thought this thread was about the understanding of empire?

I didnt say anywhere I don’t care about other groups

But they were part of a completely interlinked system. How extraordinary to only care about one group of exploiters and exploited. I thought this thread was about the understanding of empire?

I meant you bringing up other groups of exploited/exploiters

You brought up reparations!

It was a different time.

I think yes there were regrettable things that happened… but, you can’t judge the Victorian era by the standards of today.

And - it wasn’t all bad. Look at the commonwealth, many countries actually like the links to the UK.

And it wasn’t just us - all the Europeans were at it…!

These are side issues distracting from what we are talking about

Do you think the working class in this country who were also suffering should pay reparations? Should the descendants of slave owners and dealers in Africa benefit ftom reparations? Some of them did very well out of the slave trade.

Yes, I’d need to do more research, sorry it’s all quite confusing and I don’t know enough. I know the name of one side of the family but not the other if that makes sense. So one of my ancestors was white, English and went to Guyana as an indentured servant (which I’d no idea happened), but had a relationship with another indentured servant over there and seems she was from India. But i don’t know her name. At some point some of their descendants came to the U.K.

I really don’t know a lot as there’s no direct family knowledge as I found out via a dna test that my grandfather wasn’t my grandfather. I have a name for my biological grandfather and have researched his family tree, spoken to some distant relatives I’ve met online.

That’s why it’s still relevant and reparation is needed

we are beneficiaries big time of this

Very much this.

Also, would you give up everything potentially if you could undo the Empire?
You can bet the average person in the UK would be in a very different position today if the country had never gained from the empire.

This!

thank you!

Not to mention the Belgians. Their crimes against humanity were unbelievably horrific in Africa.

It was a different time.

I think yes there were regrettable things that happened… but, you can’t judge the Victorian era by the standards of today.

And - it wasn’t all bad. Look at the commonwealth, many countries actually like the links to the UK.

And it wasn’t just us - all the Europeans were at it…!

Read up on what the Portuguese, Spanish, and Dutch were up to at the time. Makes the English East India Company look like a hippy commune.