Keeping kids in from play at lunchtime.

How shocked are you that this 61 year old doesn’t know them?

Due to my dyscalculia I use calculators for all that. I do the calculations multiple times because I can’t estimate or understand what’s reasonable. I seem to manage ok to cook stuff, order stuff, check my income and outgoings. My maths is fine. It’s my arithmetic that’s screwy so I managed to study both economics and accounting.
Yes, times tables, for those who can, make some things a bit quicker and less stressful. They are very far from essential though.

I am absolutely shocked that a Y4 child doesn’t know their timetables?!

what exactly are they doing for maths then? Surely everything they are learning would require that knowledge. My dc knew theirs in Y1!!
I can’t believe this is true that an entire class doesn’t know this. And HOW as a parent did you not even know or question this?

@0gfhty there isn't a statutory spellings test in Y4, spellings do form a part of Y6 SATS so they will be learning spellings through the years which will then go towards that test but will obviously help them with their reading and writing in school and in life.

Some schools will give weekly lists etc for children to learn and then test them.

Do you do school drop offs/pick ups, it might be an idea to ask for a quick chat with teacher to ask what you are meant to be doing with your DC. I would also check the school's website, it should detail the curriculum for all year groups. Some schools have a class blog or similar which may include a few sentences/photos showing what the class have been doing recently. It does sound as if your school isn't great at communication.

I would imagine that the teachers concerned would rather be catching up with their marking, having a break themselves, simply savouring a cuppa in the staffroom....but they have spotted a gap, and are doing what they can to fill it. Nice to be appreciated for going above and beyond.
I agree that the curriculum is overcrowded now, but the expectation of fluency in times tables is nothing new. How well I remember the flash cards pinned up in the kitchen at breakfast time. If I could remember 6x7 readily, all well and good. If I'd forgotten, I was at liberty to leave the table and look it up, but this took me away from the food......I never arrived at school hungry.

@justasking111 I bought the book ‘maths for mum and dad’ to help us with the new methods of teaching maths when DS was at school, and both DH and I are good at maths, DH in particular being gifted in maths.

You gotta feel sorry for teachers with this attitude. Not my problem.

Back in my time it was a mark against the parents at school if you didn't help them with spelling, and maths homework every week. You'd be singled out at collection time. By a member of staff, teacher or head and pulled aside for a little chat.

I threw up my hands once saying I don't understand the new way of doing subtraction, long division. The head said I'll teach you. Other parents said and me please. We then had two lessons after school where we sat at desks being taught how to do it.

And if you struggle with remembering times tables or think it is dull, I used to use things like Lego bricks to show visually how they work. So square Lego brick can show 2 x 2 =4, other bricks can demonstrate things like 4 x 2, or you can arrange a number of bricks in patterns to show other permutations

Children will be provided with an app so they can get used to doing them quickly and the format of the statutory test. And if children struggle with these then that is where intervention groups help at school. But parents need to step up.

@Baconbuttymad so if a chef has to double a recipe don’t they need maths. Yes they can use a calculator but they need to know what function. They need to know the answer that appears is reasonable (just in case operator error). Chefs may have to order food, again maths is necessary.

Anyone earning money will need to know the amount they are paid is in line with contract, especially if you are freelance/self employed.

Science/maths will usually be required in psychologist study.

I agree there should be different level of maths available (so some form of maths paper that includes everyday use of maths, budgeting etc), not everyone needs to understand trigonometry, calculus etc but I don’t agree maths is not necessary.

Honestly it’s just page after page of people that would moan if the kids didn’t know their timetables but don’t want to do them at home and don’t want to take advantage of the teachers and TA’s giving up their own time to help their kids. Then there’s the ones that talk about ND even though there was no mention of that in the post! And even worse the ones that talk about maths like it’s not an absolutely imperative life skill! How often do you need to multiply or divide something? Every day I would say, when shopping, working out a rough price for anything that you’re buying more than one if. It’s seriously worrying.

No way the school would say this is compulsory if OP mentioned politely that they wanted their child to play out instead, it’s literally a quick 2 minute chat with the teacher. But then we see posts about teachers not teaching well enough 😡

If my child was behind in learning their times tables, I’d be pleased that the school was addressing it. They have to learn it at some point so it’s either at school or at home. Those being the options, I’d be thrilled it was being done by the school during the school day. It allows for more play time (and down time) with the family at home.

I fully understand the pressure son teachers. I was one. But there are ways of teaching wothout putting unnecessary pressure on those who struggle. Teachers could campaign more to have the curriculum changed. They could refuse to comply with the testing en masse as we did once over SATs.
Your last sentence is the point. Support. Not drill so heavily with so much pressure that those with no hope of ever being able to do it feel useless and stupid.

It depends on the institution. My cousin got into UCL without a maths gcse as her English lit a level result was exceptional.

This!

Except nowadays you can't get into any of those without GCSE Maths.

If your child wants to be an artist, I’ve got a particularly arty child; they don’t need maths. No one should be forced to do it. With certain kids it just doesn’t click no matter how much you practice. There are many jobs where it is not necesary to use maths:
chef, model, air hostess, cleaner, artist, butcher, actor, psychologist, detective etc etc

I'm actually shocked at the number of people on this thread admitting to not practicing times tables with their child, like it's optional. Pretty shitty parenting.
As has been said many times so far, you don't need to sit down for half an hour at a time. You can practice verbally on the walk/drive to school, while you're pottering around the house, even reciting 1 lot before bed would help! It's really pathetic making excuses.

Within the current school system, which parents and individual teachers cannot change, what do you suggest this teacher does, within her already massively over packed curriculum, to ensure their whole class is confident with their time tables. I fully agree that the current system places too much pressure on young children - currently seeing my oldest go through the 11+ prep which is a terrible system which should definitely be abolished. Being told that the work and exams you do now will influence your sucess as an adult at 15/16 when do gcse's is a lot, having this at 9 it's awful - contending with the choices of going to a school where violence is daily occurrence or slogging to pass a test which many adults would struggle with. I agree the system needs an overhaul.

But that's what we have, the choices are accept it or opt out - parents have the option of opting out of British state education by going private or home schooling or moving to a different country, if they feel that strongly about it. Or work to get to a high enough level in goverment that can try to influence policy change around education. Otherwise we need to support our children to do their best within it.

I think by aged 8 or 9 it is expected that children in English school know their timetables up to at least the 12x table. We are in Scotland and I don't think there is a test here (could be wrong) but both my 8 and 9 year old know them. We do ten minutes practice a day and it's usually on the school run. In the process of helping them learn we did recitation, writing them out and times table rock stars and top marks to check how they were getting on.

You always get people on these kind of posts assuming what kids learn at school is pointless. It is a very useful skill to have and I use them daily in my job. Your child may well go onto a job where they need ro do on the spot calculations too and it helps if you have the basics covered because you can easily spot mistakes.

Sounds like you aren't going to complain and now that you know it is expected I would just try to find 10 minutes here and there to help. It's good that the school has picked up that some kids are struggling with this and giving them a helping hand. They have chosen a method with the least impact on parents and children ie. kids that wouldn't be able to stay afterschool aren't missing out, it doesn't eat into family time, missing one break a week won't affect their overall health and wellbeing etc.

I suggest not having ridiculous over testing.

I think that some posters have missed the bit about OP’s son being enthusiastic about maths so he’d probably agree to do some regular practice. It would be a shame if he didn’t remain enthusiastic because not knowing his tables slowed down his learning so harder material became a struggle.

@cardibach so what do you suggest whilst these statutory tests are in place? What is your answer?

During normal class time help should be provided, but if you say no amount of reasonable adjustments available during SATS can help what do you suggest?

Don’t rant at me, I don’t make the rules up.

The Y4 times table test is a bit ridiculous & an example of over testing which seems to be rampant throughout the English education system.

Wait til you hit Secondary and your kids are called in for extra tuition in the Easter holidays before their GCSE or A level exams!!

Extra help is extra help though & I think it's a sign of a good school if they are prepared to go above & beyond. Teachers giving up lunch breaks to support the children they teach should be applauded surely, not criticised?

Brilliant. Way to make them feel even more stupid.