Keeping kids in from play at lunchtime.

Thank you Cardibach! As someone who has really struggled with maths. No matter how much my parents tried to help etc I couldn’t memorise all my times tables. I can work it out no bother if I take my time. But I instantly freeze on the spot at quick fire questions.
I’m mid 30s and a nurse. I can work out my drug calculations etc. I do sometimes struggle with memorising all the bones and tendons etc I can asses, I know the locations of just the names take me a little longer!
In this day if I was at school it may have got picked up on and may have got some support.

Your 5yr knew all their times tables ?

Absolutely this!
And I doubt it's for the entire lunch break either because the teacher surely needs a bit of time to get ready for the pm lessons, nip to the loo, grab a hasty sandwich etc.

Maybe check how long it's for & the set up before deciding you need to complain about it.

I’d be grateful that the teachers were willing to give up their break to support my child with their progress. I’d be spending more time helping them learn at home as well.

Many years ago, when the wrong people got their hands on education, any kind of rote learning was not just frowned on, it was actively banned. There will be teachers now who were never taught tables, I recall a Headteacher when I was supply having a real go at another supply teacher for teaching tables and she was his wife! We used to get pupils in High school at 11 who were totally unable to recall, say 3 x 9, the best they could manage was going through the 9x table. Apart from the 7x table there are many short cuts.

Year 4 teacher here. At my school, we have open classrooms and give out information to parents (hard copies & on our website) listing everything they need to know about what’s going to be going on in Year 4, within the first few weeks of the new school year. Fewer than half of my cohort’s parents generally turn up & no one took the information leaflet this year, or last!

I’m a huge advocate of learning times tables - NOT just because of the National testing at the end of year 4 - but because they lay the foundations of understanding maths in so many other areas. I set all of the maths homework for my class & less than half the class complete it. I have sent several messages to parents ‘gently’ reminding them to encourage their children to complete their homework (which, I have explained reinforces the work we have done in class that week) but some never will…however, they are quick to come to us later in the year & complain that their child is struggling to get to grips with maths. I can’t win!
Teaching now is so different to when I started 20 years ago. If parents could spend a day in class, they’d see that a massive chunk of our time is spent dealing with behavioural issues. I have about 35 mins for my lunch break, in which I may have to deal with problems on the playground, type up & record any issues from the morning & maybe eat my lunch & go to the loo! If your child’s teacher is giving up just 1 of their lunch breaks, I’d be thanking them, not thinking of confronting them about it!

It’s wrong, children need that time to get their energy out. I’m sure the school would be complaining if they were being disruptive after lunch. They should take 10 mins every morning to do it when brains are more fresh and awake. 10 mins a day can make a huge difference over time.

There is a times table test at the end of year 4. The curriculum prescribes 10s, 2s and 5s in year 2. Across lower key stage 2, all the other tables are taught and their division facts, but practice at home embeds this. We are not in Victorian times where primary education is about rote learning of facts, chanted back to the teacher every day. We have a broad, diverse and interesting curriculum, the downside of which is that core learning needs to be supported at home.

In year 3 children get their TTRS (or similar) logins for home and school and have some times table instruction in school. There is an expectation that children practice their times tables using TTRS as homework, along with reading every day and weekly spellings. Children should know the majority of their tables by the end of year 3, and have instant recall of multiplication and division facts by the May half term of year 4.

It sounds to me like the club, which is probably using TTRS or similar, is for those children not practising at home. Kids resent missing lunchtime play? What a great incentive for them to start doing their homework. Kids struggling with maths but doing their times table homework will probably still get their playtime.

Here you go, OP…

As usual teachers are dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.

Ok. Not sure what you are so cross about.

Well that's just not true - the post I responded to was asking about the 'benefit' of knowing them and I responded for with a specific example of benefit to my son. I never said anything about essential at any point, or said or implied anything about anyone that doesn't know them.

I’m responding to your explanation of why it’s ‘essential’ to learn them. Sure, if it’s easy to learn it could make some things quicker or easier. It’s not essential though. Source: my life.

I've no idea how your response is relevant to my post. Are you saying that because some people can't learn times tables I shouldn't have taught my son and instead got him to use a calculator?

Im sure the teachers aren't thrilled about it either...... We were told that we all had a lunchtime club each week and honestly it leaves you chasing your tail for the rest of the day.
Maybe when your child had a rapid recall of their times tables and can then feed it into their day to day maths work you'll see the benefit 👍

No they aren’t. They are the building blocks of arithmetic.
OP May be unreasonable, but it’s not because of this.

Times tables are the building blocks of all the child’s future maths lessons. I’m shocked you are even worried about your kid missing out on half an hour playtime whilst the teachers give them extra tuition! Probably in the staffs lunch hour too! You are being COMPLETELY unreasonable.

I am dyscalculic. I think I know more about it than someone who thinks it affects your mathematical ability.
Supoort is great. That doesn’t mean constant pressure to do something that’s both impossible (or at best extremely difficult) and also unnecessary.

I know plenty about dyscalculia thanks. 😊

You clearly don't know as much as you think you do. Dyscalculia doesn't mean you can't learn times tables. It does make it more difficult, and needs different strategies but doesn't mean you can't learn.

The best way to help someone with dyscalculia learn their tables is through more practical methods - something the parent should be aware of if they have a child with dyscalculia. Things like mentioned up thread with the Lego blocks.

You don't just give up on your child because they have a special educational need. You learn how best to support your child, despite their additional needs.

Sadly, this thread has shown far too many parents do just wave their hands in despair and give up.

I've always struggled with maths, including times tables. I've wondered as an adult if I have dyscalculia because numbers still make very little sense to me.

Hopefully my son will get there in the end, especially with help from dad at home.

This isn’t to me, but - No. Maths and arithmetic are two different things.
I’m great at maths, at the problem solving and conceptual stuff. I can tell you all day what the sum is you need to do. Can’t do the sum without a calculator. And then I do it 3 times to check.
Some. People. Can’t. Do. Tables.
learn about dyscalculia.

Could the reason you struggle with maths be because you don't know your times tables???

Honestly, that is why it is sooooo important to learn them. It has a massive impact on all other maths learning.

There’s no official spelling test in Y4 but most schools have a weekly spellings test and send spellings home (my kids school don’t and it’s a bit annoying actually) but all the spellings they should know are on the internet - Twinkl have spelling mats and you don’t have to pay you can just zoom in on the images. It’s a bit overwhelming if you haven’t done them before though so maybe ask the teacher to start letting you know what spellings they’re doing each week so that you can practise at home. If he knows almost all of the multiplication tables then just practise the 7’s and 8’s, the official test won’t be for another few months so you should be able to crack them by then.

Unfortunately this attitude is pretty common amongst parents these days.

I'm 35 and don't know them either. Well, only the very basics. I really, really struggle with Maths and always have done.

My Year 5 son doesn't know the majority of them either and my husband is the one who helps him with them at home.