I hate how DS2 speaks about his wife

It does sound like you favour DS1.
let's reverse the genders and imagine this is a daughter moaning to her mum that her husband isn't pulling his weight. unfair division of labour turns into resentment and if you can't offload some frustration to your own mother than who can you offload to?
Real life isn't perfect nor are people.

I think it’s good to hear you are picking your son up on this and sticking g up for your DIL.

You're not wrong about his attitude. But I think you need to stop comparing him to his brother, even if you're only doing it internally, it is totally irrelevant and doesn't help anyone. Even utter arseholes can say all the right things in public.

Fair point. Yes I do. It's not all bad 😂

Op:: I have ds issues

mn user: must be your parenting
🙄

Absolutely mad that a mother comes here to ask for advice on her son’s behaviour and somehow posters are finding a way to blame his behaviour on her.

People (I had thought mostly men!) need to take accountability for bad attitudes towards women - and here’s a group of women having the exact same attitude. It’s depressing.

OP, I think all you can do is continue calling it out and be a support to his wife. She’s lucky to have you on her side!

To be fair- ds2 wife is a sahm to a 17 month old. It can be tiresome- I have been there (sahm 2 boys, 1 autistic) but there is normally a division of labour. For me it was home (cooking, cleaning) and my children. My DH worked/works hard long hours and his contribution was mainly financial and ofcourse spending time with the boys during the week-end (taking both of them out so I could have a break:). While I appreciate this could be different depending on how many children-ages/type of work etc it's something they need to discuss.

So @ArtyGmam I would ask your son if they hadn't worked out this btw them before she became a sahm. And that if she worked there should be no expectation on her doing more labour at home than him and that her earnings might be gone in cost of childcare anyway so not necessarily any financial gain.

Also maybe you are his only safe space to have a rant. I could rant about my dh shortcomings to close friends with the understanding that it was just a rant.

Rubbish, she is just stating the facts. My sons are 12 and 14 and what she says about their younger years really resonates with me as I feel very similar about their personalities.

Well done OP for pulling him up on his language, you are doing the right thing.

How sad that your son can’t confide in his mother without being judged and compared to his brother.

Do you balance that with nice stuff though?

I wonder if OP son does.

One thing that has soured my relationship with my in laws over the years is the fact that they never called out DP when he was being an arse to me or anyone else.

I couldn't give a shit now they are old and infirm and perhaps need a little extra help (and I'm usually an overly nice person). But the fact they never said anything, when they could have been the only ones to make a difference... I can't forget that.

You're telling us @ArtyGmam, what are you saying to your son about it? Perhaps you need to ask him if there are problems in the marriage, set him straight. Perhaps he needs some personal therapy.

Having said that, I've been told some cracking stories, after marriages broke down, about men who appeared the perfect family man to the outside world.

I think it's clear you have (unwittingly) played favourites because this post, which is ostensibly about DS2, goes on about how the first son is the best thing since sliced bread for ages before getting to the actual issue. It's not really that relevant what the first son is like, siblings are often very different. This dynamic is perhaps something to be aware of in your relationships with them moving forward. As for the remarks, it's ok to put a ban on DS2 saying misogynistic or unkind things about his wife when he speaks to you.

He's allowed to say these things to his mum of all people! Who else can you show your selfish side to? Mums make things better even when they can't. Just because he's moaning to you does not mean he is not a perfect specimen like you perceive your ds1 to be. I say lots of things to my mum that I wouldn't want to be publicly judged on. My moany complaints to her are not a true reflection of my life with my own family.

Maybe it’s not the outcome, but who he is. Luckily he’s got a decent mother to pull him into line.

Two things can be true at the same time - he can be being awful to his wife and also have been made to feel like he is second best all his life. The fact that the OP spent pretty much have the post praising DS2 does seem to point to favorites.

Your sons are two different personality types. That means you had to put more effort in to keep DS2 feeling loved and on track in his emotional development. I’m sure you did that OP, when they were children.

Even with a more challenging personality type, what your son is saying is still very disrespectful. I would continue to do as you did when he was a child and point it out to him each time with words like…I hope you don’t let anybody else hear you talking like that about your wife and child as it’s very inappropriate. Or with words like …I hope your wife can’t hear you talking like that about her or you won’t have a wife for much longer.
He might then get the message, so that he learns not to use those words when chatting with you.

The real problem though is his underlying attitude which seems to be ingrained.
Sadly I think his wife will be the one having to tackle that as a problem in her marriage. All you can do is make sure she feels supported by you.

I think you are doing the right thing. Just be low key true to yourself and call out the insults every time. My kids are younger but my middle child can be bitchy about a particular friend and I've banned her speaking that way. Either she's a friend, in which case you don't do that, or she's not a friend and then you've room to bitch.

It’s a decent mother and human that can see her child is wrong and point that out.

It’s not having favourites, it’s knowing right from wrong.

Well first of all, just a big well done that you raised two sons who call you regularly and let you into the details of their lives. I don't think you'll get get any better advice than that which you can give to yourself, because anyone who can achieve this is already a very empathetic person. He obviously trusts you so you certainly have some space to pull him up on it, but I'd be offering generalised sentences too about how hard it is with little ones and to remember to be kind to each other because it's important to maintain respect for the future when they're grown up and tha the resentment over harsh words now can remain.

i am not sure you should over involve yourself

Op, by any chance did you speak about your “challenging” kid the same way he speaks about his wife? He is more likely just repeating what he saw at home. It must have been difficult for him to grow up with a mother who worshipped a son and disliked the other.

It is no excuse of course, he shouldn’t be speaking like that but… before you decide how to approach the subject consider your own contribution to the creation of this problem and for once, don’t use your other son as an example to follow when you try to correct the problem.

Being the sole earner is stressful and having a non sleeper can drive any parents to the edge. He shouldn't bitch at or about his wife, but it sounds as though he probably needs this message to come from someone who sympathises with him.

I'd be offering practical help- but I'd do it to both of them, yes from.a point of view of how tough it is to be a SAHM (does she have no job at all? That's very isolating) but also spare some kindness for your son. Offer to go there and spend a few days looking after the baby so they can have a good night's sleep in a hotel somewhere, bring some food when you visit (ready meals, lasagne), perhaps give them some cash and say, "Only to be spent on nice things like takeaways." Just be annoyingly kind.

The man who gushes about his family is not always the best husband- just to bear in mind.

Where the hell did you get that from 🤔. It doesn't sound like she has favorites at all, she just wants her DS2 to be more respectful to his wife