I hate how DS2 speaks about his wife

Absolute rubbish.

Also, pointing out that one child has better character traits does not necessarily make them a favourite.

The thing I never understand is why do men, when having their first child, expect their workload to decrease?

If you were cooking for yourself, tidying up after yourself, doing your laundry...before you became a parent, why is it now feet up after work time? Why also do so many people, including a large proportion of MN agree?? It has always been baffling to me.

The person you are now expecting to do this for you is recovering from pregnancy and childbirth, is not sleeping through, night after night, possibly feeding the child from their own body. Likely to have vitamin deficiencies from blood loss and breast feeding.

It is such a, society approved, lack of humanity. He is going to work, same as before. Not a special soldier just because he is earning a salary, he would be doing that anyway. The only way I have found to deal wuth this fuckwittery is to earn a salary myself. That is not the answer though, the answer is men need to take on more unpaid caring and domestic work.

I still do far more caring and domestic jobs than DH. The difference is everyone thinks I'm a bloody saint now, (including DH and his parents) which is easier to deal with.

One has a newborn so would be on mat leave anyway, so you don’t know this is the case for both.

I would call it out, or be very tempted to, but if he is very much a wanker, then he might be likely to pull away from you if he truly believes he’s god’s gift and can’t raise more consciousness about his ways. So there’s that risk.

He’s an adult and you can’t raise him any further at the end of the day. He’ll either be receptive to change or he won’t be.

I’m not sure I could stay mute when I hear bullshit like that though.

I strongly disagree. This man is saying his wife has to do everything as she’s a sahm, complaining she’s lazy when she’s been up all night and hasn’t cooked his dinner, odds are he is saying it to his wife, but even if he’s not, that’s what he thinks.

It’s 2025 and both your sons in their early 30s are earning enough to support whole families? And have both married women who were willing to give up their careers and independence to raise dc? Nowt as queer as folk.

I’d be taking the piss out of son and wondering why he can’t put a pizza in the oven or run an iron over his own shirt, and how grateful he must be that an adult woman was willing to lower herself to marry such a useless buffoon in the first place.

Is he saying these things to his wife or is he having a bit of a rant in confidence to you? But I do understand how you feel as I would hate it if my son had that kind of mindset towards women.

I think this is a bit reductive and is not true. You can love your children equally while finding one easier to like/get on with. But I agree that at 31 he isn’t going to change much, though as his mother I would probably pull him up gently on the comments and say that being SAHM to a young child is tiring (especially if their sleep is poor) and the key to a happy relationship is working as a team, not criticising your partner for not having your dinner on the table.

I do actually agree with this.

Also, having one SAHP can really affect a relationship. Yes it’s obviously great for the child/ren, but it can result in an imbalance in the dynamics of that relationship that wasn’t there before and, in your DS’s case, a lack of appreciation for what the SAHP does, along with a resentment that they get to stay at home (which is generally perceived as “easier”) but don’t manage to do some of the basics like keep the house clean and tidy. Neither person is wrong, but their perspectives which were previously aligned are now polarised and it’s not unreasonable for either person to want to vent about it to a trusted third party, in this case their mother.

Quite shocking that so many responses are blaming the OP and inventing a favouritism that there's no evidence of in her post. Woman concerned about a man's potentially abusive and definitely toxic pattern behaviour - all her fault!

OP, all you can really do is call it out. I know you say you've been doing that occasionally but I'd do it every time he says something nasty about his wife, and I wouldn't hold back or mince my words - in fact I'd give him a proper bollocking.

Don't compare him to his brother, that will go down terribly. Don't bring up stuff you've observed but keep it to the things he's directly said to you (ie, you're not interfering in their marriage but responding to the things he's made your business). Definitely point out it's a toxic pattern of misogynistic behaviour across his relationships.

Agreed - what on earth are some of these responses? 'He's mean to women because his mummy liked his big brother more than him growing up'? The level of reach based on zero facts is astounding.

Depends, is he actually speaking to his wife like that? Or is he venting to you as a person of trust so he doesn't air his frustration with her?

I’m actually quite surprised by some of the responses here.
So a husband speaks badly of his wife, rather than it being his fault it’s his mums.
Yet again poor male behaviour getting excused because it’s a females fault!

Absolutely stunned by this response, basically blaming the op. Why blame a man for his own behaviour when you can find a nearby woman.

appalling.

How can some posters justify the son’s misogynistic language and behaviour? He might not be happy in his marriage but he doesn’t have to be misogynistic.

I would call him out on misogynistic comments all the time. Do you talk to him about how much parenting and household work he does when he is not at work?

Do you message DILs separately from sons?

Not read everyone’s posts. I’d be pointing out that if wife was working they would be paying someone to look after their child, which means it’s a full time job. I’d then point out if wife was working full time and kids were in childcare, after work the kids would need looking after and the house would need cleaning and the food need cooking - would he fob all that onto his wife also? If he would, I’d tell him he’s an idiot and his wife should leave him. Tell him he should be batch making meals at a weekend for them all to eat, and have some in the freezer for this exact situation. Tell him alpha men are not real men and his wife wants a partner not be a slave to him and the kids. Also I’d remind him that if he does nothing around the house what is the point of him being in a relationship but if he lived alone he would have to work and do all the cleaning and cooking and juggle 50% of the childcare. Tell him to get off the misogynistic podcasts grow a pair and become a partner to his wife and stop being a man child.

I just want to say well done you for calling your son out on his behaviours. Not all mothers would do this.

Because some people want to blame women for men's behaviour. Simple as that. Never the man's fault - he can't just be a dickhead.

My toxic trait is that DS1 sounds like a creepy crawler to me 😣

Man treats women like shit.

Mumsnet: It’s his mother’s fault.

Fucks sake.

You have to continue to parent your son because I’m afraid you haven’t finished the job.

Why on earth can’t he iron his own shirt or make his own meal.

What have his parents been modelling to him?

Yes OP, call out his attitude. A partner unwell, trying to entertain a toddler all day - exhausting - and he complaining he has to make his own dinner?
Shameful. He needs to know it.

I think it's significant that, even on a thread just about DS2's behaviour, she's still comparing him with DS1

There was no need to even mention having DS1 at all, far less compare them

I disagree. We should never excuse men’s poor behaviour towards women and just turn a blind eye.

The more people who speak up and challenge it the more likely it is to change.

He’s confiding in you OP, would you prefer he stay unhappy and silent?

Your post could be shortened to: ‘My son is unhappy in his marriage and tells me about it, why can’t he be more like his brother?’