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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so intrigued by America?

189 replies

hollyblueivy · 11/11/2025 23:18

AIBU to be so intrigued by America and just how vastly different it is to the UK despite both being rich modern nations?

Trump features a lot in the UK news and it has made me look into why the US seem so uncaring. Their systems to help the vulnerable are so different to ours. They have no right to housing so many can easily risk facing homelessness. With no national health service, access to healthcare is much more difficult and expensive, pushing people into deprivation even if they are working.

They don’t seem to have the same socialist heart as the UK and it gives a very much dog eat dog and every man for themselves culture.

I don’t think I fully appreciated this before. Anyone else?

OP posts:
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5
TempestTost · 12/11/2025 02:15

RedTagAlan · 12/11/2025 02:09

To quote the OP : " They have no right to housing so many can easily risk facing homelessness. With no national health service, access to healthcare is much more difficult and expensive, pushing people into deprivation even if they are working."

Folk in the UK do not have a right to housing. Sure, the local councils try to house folk, and it's an election issue, but we do not actually have a right to be housed. We have loads of homeless .Lots of articles online, here is an example:

A Human Right to Housing? | Oxford Law Blogs

We do have the NHS of course, they don't, but they do have stuff about emergency room treatment. ERs can't turn you away. But they will do the minimum if you can't pay.

I would say the difference is not that big, except their politics is much further to the right. Their Democrat Party is perhaps a shade to the right of our Tories, and their Republican Party are just downright strange :-)

I think the main reason the US are to the right compared to Europe and the rest of the West in general, is because of their written constitution. It was written 200 plus years ago by rich landowning men, it was written to give themselves an advantage, and it is really difficult to change.

For example, they made their Senate really powerful. There is 2 senators per state. This was designed so the rich landowners could keep the popularly elected congress in check. In many states, senators were appointed.

Very difficult to change things when so few have a stranglehold.

California has 43 million people, and 2 senators. Wyoming has 587 thousand people and 2 senators. So electorate votes for the senate are not equal. It works out a Wyoming residents vote is about 68 times more powerful than that of a California resident.

Article here about that :

Why Small States Wield Outsized Power in the U.S. Senate: 7 Key Factors - USA Heaven

So yeah, while the mix of left and right leaning people in the US could be, and probably is, about the same as Europe, the core system of the senate make it near impossible for more progressive policies to be enacted.

Add to that the electoral. Again, that was designed to give the rich landowners an advantage. And we see that when dems can get more votes in POTUS elections. but the repubs win.

And money too of course. Big big money in US politics. The SCOTUS " Citizens United" decision of 2010 made sure money in politics will make the situation worse for any left leaning Party.

Link here:

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission | Opinion, Dissent, Significance, & Influence | Britannica

But why would a state like Wyoming have agreed to union at all if their interests were just going to be bowled over by New Yorkers or Califonians every election?

That's hardly about the interests of rich landowners.

It's like saying in the EU each country gets more say depending on their population, so the tiny countries would simply end up governed by the will of the large ones.

It would be a dereliction of their duty to their citizens to agree to that.

Crushed23 · 12/11/2025 02:15

Beekman · 11/11/2025 23:48

I’m from the UK but now live in the States and have done for about 20 years. Any preconceptions you might have about the US are probably wrong. Mine certainly were. It’s a foreign country, it’s very different, I think peiple expect the two countries to have more in common because of the shared language.

I don’t know what you mean about no right to housing or benefits.

There’s a lot I love about the US and then some I can’t and will never be able to wrap my head around.

As a Brit who lives in the States, I completely agree with this.

RedTagAlan · 12/11/2025 02:09

To quote the OP : " They have no right to housing so many can easily risk facing homelessness. With no national health service, access to healthcare is much more difficult and expensive, pushing people into deprivation even if they are working."

Folk in the UK do not have a right to housing. Sure, the local councils try to house folk, and it's an election issue, but we do not actually have a right to be housed. We have loads of homeless .Lots of articles online, here is an example:

A Human Right to Housing? | Oxford Law Blogs

We do have the NHS of course, they don't, but they do have stuff about emergency room treatment. ERs can't turn you away. But they will do the minimum if you can't pay.

I would say the difference is not that big, except their politics is much further to the right. Their Democrat Party is perhaps a shade to the right of our Tories, and their Republican Party are just downright strange :-)

I think the main reason the US are to the right compared to Europe and the rest of the West in general, is because of their written constitution. It was written 200 plus years ago by rich landowning men, it was written to give themselves an advantage, and it is really difficult to change.

For example, they made their Senate really powerful. There is 2 senators per state. This was designed so the rich landowners could keep the popularly elected congress in check. In many states, senators were appointed.

Very difficult to change things when so few have a stranglehold.

California has 43 million people, and 2 senators. Wyoming has 587 thousand people and 2 senators. So electorate votes for the senate are not equal. It works out a Wyoming residents vote is about 68 times more powerful than that of a California resident.

Article here about that :

Why Small States Wield Outsized Power in the U.S. Senate: 7 Key Factors - USA Heaven

So yeah, while the mix of left and right leaning people in the US could be, and probably is, about the same as Europe, the core system of the senate make it near impossible for more progressive policies to be enacted.

Add to that the electoral. Again, that was designed to give the rich landowners an advantage. And we see that when dems can get more votes in POTUS elections. but the repubs win.

And money too of course. Big big money in US politics. The SCOTUS " Citizens United" decision of 2010 made sure money in politics will make the situation worse for any left leaning Party.

Link here:

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission | Opinion, Dissent, Significance, & Influence | Britannica

A Human Right to Housing?

https://blogs.law.ox.ac.uk/housing-after-grenfell/blog/2019/02/human-right-housing#:~:text=The%20unwritten%20Constitution%20of%20the%20UK%20does%20not,fire%20has%20resulted%20in%20renewed%20impetus%20and%20debate.

TempestTost · 12/11/2025 02:05

SoftBalletShoes · 12/11/2025 01:19

This is so not true. See my post above. These things are provided by each state individually. They are not federally mandated, which is what the sensation-seeking media focuses on. So they're technically correct when they say that America doesn't have, say, paid maternity leave of X amount that each state must give. So they say there is no paid maternity leave, which conveniently leaves out all the states and ALL the employers who do offer it.

My friend got $1,150 a WEEK maternity pay for three months from the state.

But that's not such a great America-bashing story for the European media, is it?

Edited

I sometimes think it would be easier for people in the UK to understand the US if they thought of it as being more like Europe, where each state is like a country with a lot of autonomy, which they are pretty fierce about maintaining.

And this makes sense when you consider how very large the country is. Many Americans have little to do day to day with the federal government, it is their state governments that are really impactful on their lives. And also where they have more say as a citizen.

Pryceosh1987 · 12/11/2025 01:54

The UK is awesome for independant living, but so is america to an extent. They get food stamps they can use to buy luxury items, like fish and more expensive foods. UK doesnt have that, we are given food which is dry foods and tins.

TempestTost · 12/11/2025 01:49

PermanentTemporary · 11/11/2025 23:38

Just a few points from someone who adores the USA.

  • huge range of states; governance and culture really vary from state to state.
  • Americans are much, much more structurally generous than Brits. Giving to charities, social organisations etc, both in money and time, is stratispherically higher than it is over here. What they don’t choose is to have the federal state as involved as the state is here. That has positives and negatives, but there is absolutely no lack of sharing, caring and giving, much more locally and flexibly than we do.
  • American healthcare is the best in the world, and it is freely available to those without any money at all. It’s the low income worker that struggles, and a tangled range of vested interests keeps costs high and public health variable.
  • What is presented to us in the media is of course distorted. The US is presented as ‘anti-vax’ but they have much stricter standards on vaccination than we do, or as ‘anti abortion’ when a big proportion of states have much better abortion laws than we do in the UK.

I was going to say something similar to this, but I see you've already said it.

Americans are really very wary of the state playing too much of a role in social life, and I don't think I appreciated that the might have a real point with this when I was younger.

In part I think this is because so many people in the US went there originally because they were freeing regimes that in one way or another were repressive - often preventing them from practising their religion. This creates a mindset that sees the state as a potential danger.

However, now that I have seen the way a state can even today use its social role to socially engineer, I find I am much more wary myself - for example withdrawing funding from rape services that wont admit or employ transwomen in front line roles. I also think there is some truth to the idea that when the state takes on certain caring roles, individuals tend to start believe that they no longer have any personal duty to do so. It's easy not to realise the extent that many Americans see that kind of personal involvement as something they are morally obligated to do.

They also tend to put more emphasis on the idea that economic productivity is an important part of creating overall prosperity. It's not a matter of not thinking it's good to have prosperity for all, rather, they think overall productivity is the way to get there, and excessive regulation chokes productivity.

mathanxiety · 12/11/2025 01:48

Pinkbowls · 12/11/2025 00:09

Did you see the video of the women who rang over 50 churches to ask for a tub of baby formula and all said no bar 4 churches and when she phoned a mosque they said yes straight away.

My parish church has increased its food / money collection that stocks the food bank of a parish in a nearby poor area from twice a month to every Sunday, in response to the suspension of SNAP. We have hundreds of new and gently used winter coats and snow bibs for all ages ready for a coat giveaway plus free lunch event that we will be holding this coming weekend. We set up a migrant ministry to support the thousands of migrants who have arrived in the city over the past few years, and provided basic human needs (clothing, footwear, bedding, food, and free medical care) as well as free legal help, sponsorship/ accompaniment by parish families, accommodation with parish families, and support as families moved into apartments and children started school.

AnotherBritInTheUSA · 12/11/2025 01:37

SoftBalletShoes · 12/11/2025 01:35

I'm near Boston.

I’m the other end, closer to NYC

Subaroo · 12/11/2025 01:36

BluntPlumHam · 12/11/2025 01:09

😂 I was waiting for someone to mention the
social experiment and also for someone to jump and defend the terrible response from the churches.

I see, it was a "social experiment". Got a link? Maybe it's different in the UK but churches in the US don't typically keep a supply of baby formula.

SoftBalletShoes · 12/11/2025 01:35

AnotherBritInTheUSA · 12/11/2025 01:26

Yes, I’m in Connecticut.

I'm near Boston.

AnotherBritInTheUSA · 12/11/2025 01:33

hollyblueivy · 11/11/2025 23:57

Ah that makes more sense! He was talking about it as though it was a celebration and that they have things like veterans sales at the shops.

Veteran’s Day is also a Federal holiday

mathanxiety · 12/11/2025 01:32

curious79 · 11/11/2025 23:29

Because ultimately they will get paid. The banks will pay their wages in the knowledge they’ll get back payments.

There is no way banks will cut checks for the people turning up to work.

AnotherBritInTheUSA · 12/11/2025 01:26

SoftBalletShoes · 12/11/2025 01:24

Any other Brits in the New England area?

Yes, I’m in Connecticut.

SoftBalletShoes · 12/11/2025 01:24

Any other Brits in the New England area?

SoftBalletShoes · 12/11/2025 01:19

TheLivelyRose · 12/11/2025 00:29

I don’t think I fully appreciated this before. Anyone else?

I'm curious as to how you didn't know about this before now.

Everyone knows the u s has virtually no paid annual leave.No maternity rights and very little employment rights

How on earth didn't you know this..

This is so not true. See my post above. These things are provided by each state individually. They are not federally mandated, which is what the sensation-seeking media focuses on. So they're technically correct when they say that America doesn't have, say, paid maternity leave of X amount that each state must give. So they say there is no paid maternity leave, which conveniently leaves out all the states and ALL the employers who do offer it.

My friend got $1,150 a WEEK maternity pay for three months from the state.

But that's not such a great America-bashing story for the European media, is it?

YankSplaining · 12/11/2025 01:13

BluntPlumHam · 12/11/2025 01:09

😂 I was waiting for someone to mention the
social experiment and also for someone to jump and defend the terrible response from the churches.

My kids are seven and eleven. I could call a church right now - “Could you give me a tub of baby formula? We just used up our money on the rent and we won’t have any more until we get paid next week. I don’t know who else to ask. I feel really bad for asking for a handout like this, but I don’t know what else to do. She hasn’t eaten in six hours and I’m so worried.”

You think they should give it to me?

OriginalUsername2 · 12/11/2025 01:13

TheLivelyRose · 12/11/2025 00:29

I don’t think I fully appreciated this before. Anyone else?

I'm curious as to how you didn't know about this before now.

Everyone knows the u s has virtually no paid annual leave.No maternity rights and very little employment rights

How on earth didn't you know this..

How would someone even answer that? You can’t know what you don’t know - until you know 😆

It’s polite to answer questions without making people feel stupid. Stephen Fry is excellent at this.

SoftBalletShoes · 12/11/2025 01:13

I'm British but moved to the US age 32. Been here 18.5 years.

What the news doesn't tell you is that many states have great welfare programmes and benefits. The point is that these benefits - such as paid maternity leave - are not federally mandated. But each state is free to create its own, and it does. In my state, you get 80% of your salary for three months, up to a maximum of $1,170 a week. That's for maternity, time off to care for a relative or time off to recover from your own illness.

Additionally, many companies offer great benefits too. It's a way that they compete to get staff.

People who are dirt-poor have it bad in America, but the majority of states do have welfare. Also, only about ten percent of children live in poverty in the IS compared to over 30 percent in the UK.

Don't believe everything you hear in the news about America!

BluntPlumHam · 12/11/2025 01:09

YankSplaining · 12/11/2025 00:29

Also - if she called them on the phone, they don’t have any evidence that she even has a baby. People steal baby formula to sell it for money and scammers like to prey on people’s sense of charity.

😂 I was waiting for someone to mention the
social experiment and also for someone to jump and defend the terrible response from the churches.

mondaytosunday · 12/11/2025 01:05

I live in the UK now but was brought up in the US and my sisters still live there.
There’s a lot of things that are great about America. Their customer service, the convenience of shops being open til 10pm (or later), their generosity, their friendliness, their ‘can do’ attitude.
What I don’t like is their insularity, violence, lack of work/life balance. And current political climate of course.
But I couldn’t live there now. At least I couldn’t afford to. My DD has Multiple Sclerosis and I have type 1 diabetes. Our health insurance would be sky high and I’m not a low enough earner to qualify for any sort of benefits. My sister’s DD has profound autism and several health issues. She gets good health care by paying about $25k in health insurance annually. Even so, she has several thousand dollars in co payments annually. I don’t believe her daughter would have the same access to the specific doctors if she was on Medicare. My sister doesn’t work but has assets that are over the limit for Medicare.
Here I also don’t work and live off investments. But I don’t pay anything above my taxes that we all pay. I pay nothing for my insulin, or my DD’s very expensive drugs to treat her MS (diagnosed as a minor).
But take that (essential) aspect away and I’d have no problem living there. I do think the education structure is better than ours, non exam based and broader up til 18.
There are many assumptions both ways. You need to live in a country to understand it, and even then it depends on what part of the country you live in. Boston is very different to New Orleans, as Portsmouth is very different to Durham. And in both the rural experience is totally different again. Plus the vastness of the US cannot be discounted.

Beekman · 12/11/2025 00:56

timestressed · 12/11/2025 00:47

@PermanentTemporarywhich states have better abortion laws than in the UK? What is that difference?

Abortion pills can be prescribed online and sent by post and if necessary, you can refer yourself directly to a clinic that performs abortions. The whole process is quicker than in the UK (if you want it to be).

hollyblueivy · 12/11/2025 00:55

Goldwren1923 · 12/11/2025 00:52

UK is an almost bankrupt nation, not rich

The UK is far from poor in the global sense.

OP posts:
CarolinaInTheMorning · 12/11/2025 00:54

timestressed · 12/11/2025 00:47

@PermanentTemporarywhich states have better abortion laws than in the UK? What is that difference?

I think several states have better laws on abortion access than Northern Ireland.

Goldwren1923 · 12/11/2025 00:52

UK is an almost bankrupt nation, not rich

Beekman · 12/11/2025 00:51

Hardy any annual leave when you start at a new job but it soon accumulates. My DH, working in the private sector, gets 5 weeks a year plus 7 public holidays.

Maternity and paternity leave is common now but yes, there are some strides needed on this.