4yo won’t wear a nappy to bed…

I don't care whether you agree or not. You're not a clinician, and frankly, it shows. Even the website you keep endlessly linking to as evidence does not support you. Vasopressin is only given in exceptional circumstances where all else has failed. The primary function of Vasopressin is not to keep people dry at night - that's your error and you can't seem to let it go. And your earlier claim that babies are unable to produce vasopressin and then miraculously start producing it at four is bollocks. Stop masquerading as an expert and stop giving people poorly-understood and misinterpreted information.

I did a 2 sheet system to train mine at night. A plastic sheet in between. If the bed got wet, my chills got up and threw the sheet and plastic on the floor and got back in to bed as there was a fresh sheet under. They only wet one time so did not wee on the second sheet.

so a plastic mattress cover, then a sheet, then a sheet of plastic and another sheet.

I had a 4 year old bed wetter.
I used to obviously try and make him go before bed and then also shuffle him to the toilet again for a wee just before i went to sleep.
I also found some half pants half nappy things.
Search Pee pants for boys, anti bedwetting pyjamas and waterproof pants for boys
It doesnt stop them peeing but stops it going everywhere when they do.

Night wetting is hormone related. An alarm won't work on a 4yo, they're for older kids.

If your son isn't making vasopressin then he is unable to be dry at night. It reduces the amount of urine produced during sleep meaning a person shouldn't need to wee in the night (my kids go 12 hours without the toilet). It's totally normal not to produce the hormone before 7yo and boys often develop it later than girls (but not always).

So basically, no amount of limiting drinks or lifting is going to stop the bed wetting until that hormone is produced. So either get waterproof bedding or get him wearing pull ups.

I disagree. Some dc just don’t produce enough into they are older.

See this for more info: https://eric.org.uk/advice-for-children-with-night-time-wetting/

plus, lots of 4yos are not dry at night but many more 8yos are, so things can clearly change.

One of mine did this for a year or so, then wore pull up’s till he was 7, he just couldn’t stay dry at night. You do get good sheets that go on top of sheet that can be whipped off and saves changing the whole bed. Never found a solution for the duvets though! Maybe two cover less duvets on rotation…. Mine got fed up of waking up wet and uncomfy so agree to the pull ups eventually. Certainly meant we all slept better and we got there in the end. Other two just stopped at 3 and slept through with the occasional accident.

My advice would be to explain to him he will need to wear special ninja pants ( for big boys) until he’s dry through the night. It takes the pressure off everyone.

Pull up pants weren't sold then either.

I have apologised in a previous post. But I'll apologise again. My son refused nappies because he didn't like how they felt I couldn't force him to wear them it was too upsetting for him.

Mine didn’t want to after he finished potty training but I couldn’t cope with the between 5 nights out of 7! Waking up for a wee wasn’t an option for us as my son would then be wide awake and need ages to settle again. So I found ninja pants. He doesn’t love them but they are acceptable to him (he’s 5 now). I would stop calling it a nappy to start with! Just find some pull up pants he likes the look of.

This is not true. Whilst some clinicians will prescribe vasopressin to children over the age of 5 with enuresis where all other strategies have failed, this is not the primary function of vasopressin, which occurs naturally in the body and has multiple functions, none of them linked to personal convenience. To be blunt, your body doesn't care what time you sleep, or if you piss the bed when you do. All humans, with a very few exceptional medical deficiencies, produce vasopressin from birth. There is no evidence whatsoever that a child deficient in vasopressin up to the age of four will spontaneously start producing it.

I was going to suggest this. DD1 had occasional accidents at night until she was about 7. We layered a disposable mat (like the puppy mats) sheet, second mat, second sheet. At 2am, strip off the top layer, bin the mat, throw the sheet and PJs in the wash (or bath) and back to bed.

And yes to lifting for a wee.

Not really, not if he’s wetting the bed every night!!

And it might not be short term at all either - my ds wasn’t dry at night until 8.

My 2 and 4 year olds are wearing washable potty training pants that we call night pants. They never wore them for actual potty training though. They hold some but not all of a wee if needed. I pair them with hygge sheets just incase. Between the two it's not much washing if they wet. Luckily it's not very often but it's pretty easy to strip without stripping the whole bed as the mat goes on top.

@Icecreamhelps thank you for that. I know with my youngest this would definitely have applied he was literally just 3 and dry at night, reliably. Ds1 was 10 and it was really hard for him. He had residential school trips and had to hide pull ups plus take desmopressin, the synthetic hormone to help him try to stay dry. The fear he felt of being discovered in a pull up was awful.

I too wet the bed as did my Dad and they medicated me with some horrific stuff, I was 4 and it was the 70s. So from my own experience I can still feel the shame of it and I am bitter about that now knowing about vasopressin so my posts too might be a bit spiky.

You are right, and I can only apologise if I came across as flippant or ignorant. I was just speaking from personal experience.

@Icecreamhelps it was because you said, "in the short term but it will be worth it." For a lot of parents, it isn't short term. It is still something that isn't talked about, there still seems to be a stigma attached to it.

I don't know who knows about vasopressin and who doesn't.

Ahhh I see it's because I say it's positive.

Thank you for this information but I was already aware of this. I'm not saying you should take away a nappy from a child who is comfortable wearing one. OP clearly explained her DS is refusing to wear one. I have never condone that wearing a nappy is shameful. So I'm not sure why you quoted me.

Pull up or nappy? Most won't go near a nappy after 3

If he’s weeing before bed, you’re lifting him as you’re going to bed and he’s still wetting again at 2-3am then he’s clearly not producing the hormone necessary to be dry at night yet. Which is totally normal because 4 is the average age for this so many, many kids aren’t dry until later. Medically it’s not late until age 7. When he is ready he’ll just sleep through without needing to wake for the loo. Essentially you have a behavioural problem and he needs to wear a nappy or pull up. Try bribery e.g. TV in the mornings if he keeps it on combined with getting the pyjama pants that say age 4-7 on the pack so he doesn’t feel like he’s wearing baby nappies. When they’ve been dry for a week straight then he’s ready and you can get rid. Chances are this will happen within the next year no matter what you do. Him not wearing them is achieving nothing except a giant pile of laundry!

Agree with this. I have 2 kids and one was dry at night from about 2, even before we potty trained he would have a dry nappy every morning. The other unfortunately was wetting at night until 5. We put the pull ups on as he was getting so upset waking up wet. Called them "night time pants" and not nappies. Just marketing 😂. Would he wear them?

The body has to produce a hormone called vasopressin which reduces urine production at night. Without it they have a full bladder which needs to be emptied during the night and clearly he isn't producing this. But he isn't waking up to go to the toilet either.

If you took this nappy off attitude with my eldest child you would have 6 more years of bedwetting. Ds1 was 10 before he was reliably dry at night. Ds2 was 3 and dry at night.

OP read up on the ERIC website and you can follow their guidelines. For us that included monitoring liquid intake and output (pee into measuring jug) reducing red juices and the time they drink. A bedwetting alarm which for a lot of children just leaves them traumatised, wakes the whole house up and the child is too disorientated to turn it off by themselves.

We had waterproof bedding from incontinence websites, usually aimed at elderly people. But, just know that a lot of children are not dry at night by the time they start school. ERIC has the stats on this and great advice.

Sadly a lot of parents tell their children that nappies are for babies and to be a big boy/big girl they wear pants for potty training. This then becomes a problem at night when they still need a nappy. You will need to try to explain that he needs the nappy at night.

At night time it’s hormonal. Honestly I’d insist on nappies. It’s not something he can control or work on and you don’t want to deal with wet sheets multiple times a week. He’s still young

when you say he won’t wear a nappy, will he not wear pull ups?