Page 2 | To wonder if UK lycees sometimes hinder the integration of French immigrant kids?

Carla786 · 2025-11-11T18:53:02+00:00

I was reading Ben Judah's excellent book This Is London recently, about the relative integration of different immigrant groups in London. The focus was mainly on non-Western European immigrants, but there was some mention of the French immigrant population of Kensington. I went to school there - my school was very near a lycee but I never thought much about it. I'm quite interested in France myself (my mum's a French teacher) and have several French friends (my school had a lot of European immigrants' children), I'm definitely not opposed to French people coming here. I'm just wondering if lycees are always helpful for integration. (Yes, I'm Gen Z- I know people will want to know why I'm on MN : I came for GC issues and stayed for the rest). Generally we emphasise that it's important for immigrants to integrate with the existing population as much as possible. Lycees give French immigrants' children an education that follows the French curriculum, and I understand from what I've read are generally now composed of almost solely French children, though I understand the pupil cohort used to be more mixed in the past and maybe included more British children. If you grow up in a mainly French immigrant community and go to a lycee with mainly other French immigrant kids, how integrated will you be into the mainstream British population? Generally when we talk about integration we focus on immigrant groups where sections are involved in crime or who mainly low-skilled. French immigrants are generally neither, so the lycee system isn't much remarked on. While I agree it's not a major concern, I still think it's worthy of comment. We don't (I think) have lots of similar schools worldwide for the kids of Italian, German, Greek, Spanish, etc immigrants where they learn non-British curriculums. Yes, there are faith schools which sometimes overlap with ethnicity and have different curriculums (though I'd question that too- that topic's not for this thread, though).. I understand that lycees' educational standards are highly regarded & Brits or other immigrant nationalities sometimes send their kids there for that reason, esp since some run a parallel English curriculum(though as I said, the number of non-French pupils is much less now). Still, I wonder how positive it is to have them if they're increasingly becoming nearly wholly French, and often used by families who are constantly on the move so that their kids can easily switch between lycees? TLDR : AIBU to wonder if lycees may hinder integration of French immigrant kids if they now teach a French curriculum under the auspices of the French government to mainly French immigrant pupils who live generally in French immigrant-dominated areas? I'm definitely not saying they should be banned or anything, especially as UK state schools are generally bad at the moment..maybe there should be a push for a more mixed pupil cohort though?

Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 02:14

Dgll · 12/11/2025 06:11

Expats are often payed by the company or government that employs them back in their home country. They tend to move country very frequently as the contracts/placements tend to be 2-3 years. If you work for your government you are encouraged not to integrate too much as they want your loyalty to remain with your home country for security reasons. You usually have accommodation, health insurance and school fees with your job (why the French gov objected to VAT on school fees when Uk expats over there don’t have to pay it). Income tax is often paid in the country you are employed by, not the one you are living in. People of all races are called expats in that type of expat world. You also get retirees who are expats plus other people who move around countries. They generally want to retain their citizenship. They are usually called expats for economic reasons rather than racial ones. The lines are more blurred between expats and immigrants in those circumstances.

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Thanks for the explanation, that makes it a lot clearer. As I've said, I think it can also get blurred when people use 'expat' who aren't there for job reasons, it's more that they're vague about whether they want to settle or not & so want to be non-committal.

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Sichsehnen · 13/11/2025 02:11

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 01:57

Merci, c'est tres utile. I agree that a major flaw of my OP has been the ongoing lack of clarity over what the cohort of most lycees is . So, if only 40% of the pupils are French, why have several pps said it's very hard now for non-French speakers to get in & most pupils are Expat kids? Confusing...

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but even if the cohort was 100% percent French - We would be talking about 10% of french children in the UK maximum and still under half a percentage point of total students .... Given the size of the sample the make up of the cohort is barely relevant....

You're clearly hung up on something re the french and their "integration" - If you ask a concise question maybe you'll get a better response.

French people when abroad send their kids to french lycées abroad for many reasons but some of them being because

the curriculum is standardized where ever you are in the world so if you move your kids education doesn't get disrupted
they are highly subsidized for french nationals abroad and often for expats employers will pay so its private school for "cheap" (cheap being relative here)
French Lycées abroad are highly regarded back in France
French Public University is basically free and having been in a lycée français à l'étranger pretty much garanties access to a course of your choice
French "Grandes Ecoles" are often interested in "recruiting" ex lycée français kids for the concours as most kids who have been in Lycée Francais a l'étranger will speak French + The langage of the country they were in + English and have a higher academic level than if they were from a french state school in France as well as the advantages of third culture kids.

Expats and immigrants are allowed to be homesick, they are allowed to think they may return home at one point, they are allowed to project that onto their children and above all people are allowed to want what they think is good or best for their children.

Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 02:07

Sichsehnen · 13/11/2025 01:50

@Carla786
Mais avez vous pensé a regarder, ne serait-ce qu'un peu, les stat avant de poser vos constats?

The Office for National Statistics estimates that 189,000 French-born immigrants were resident in the UK in 2020.[9]

20% of the population is under 20 in the UK ( see image).

LFCG is 3 till 18 as is Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill ( lets be generous and say 0-20 for our sums)

Enrollment at LFCG is 3500
Enrollment at Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill is 1100

40% of students at LFCG are French per their website (http://www.lyceefrancais.org.uk/a-propos/notre-etablissement-2/)
40% of students at Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill are french (https://www.lyceeinternational.london/decouvrir/mission-valeurs-et-histoire/?lang=fr)

So first little sum 189 000 x 20% 37 800 - Estimate of french children between 0 and 20 in the UK

Total Enrollment of LFCG + LIWC = 4600 x 40% = total amount of French kids at LFCG + LIWC = 1840

1840 as a percentage of 37800 = 4.87%

Why are you so worked up over how and where under 5% of French immigrant or Expat children get educated?

In the UK primary and secondary combined there are 9,032,426 pupils https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-pupils-and-their-characteristics/2024-25 So the 1840 french nationals at LFCG and LIWC represent 0.02% of pupils in the UK.

And even as you say in your last post french pupils are 80% and not 40 for both of the lycées in London we would still only be talking about under half a percentage point of pupils in the UK....

BTW, are there really only 2 lycees in London?

I guess I meant French schools in general, I know some are not official lycees. Thus seems to indicate more than 2.

https://international-french-schools.co.uk/#:~:text=London%E2%80%8B,Londres%20Winston%20Churchill%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8B

https://www.independentschoolparent.com/school/london-schools/top-of-the-class-londons-bilingual-schools/

Home - International French Schools

https://international-french-schools.co.uk/#:~:text=London%E2%80%8B,Londres%20Winston%20Churchill%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8B

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Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 01:57

Sichsehnen · 13/11/2025 01:50

@Carla786
Mais avez vous pensé a regarder, ne serait-ce qu'un peu, les stat avant de poser vos constats?

The Office for National Statistics estimates that 189,000 French-born immigrants were resident in the UK in 2020.[9]

20% of the population is under 20 in the UK ( see image).

LFCG is 3 till 18 as is Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill ( lets be generous and say 0-20 for our sums)

Enrollment at LFCG is 3500
Enrollment at Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill is 1100

40% of students at LFCG are French per their website (http://www.lyceefrancais.org.uk/a-propos/notre-etablissement-2/)
40% of students at Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill are french (https://www.lyceeinternational.london/decouvrir/mission-valeurs-et-histoire/?lang=fr)

So first little sum 189 000 x 20% 37 800 - Estimate of french children between 0 and 20 in the UK

Total Enrollment of LFCG + LIWC = 4600 x 40% = total amount of French kids at LFCG + LIWC = 1840

1840 as a percentage of 37800 = 4.87%

Why are you so worked up over how and where under 5% of French immigrant or Expat children get educated?

In the UK primary and secondary combined there are 9,032,426 pupils https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-pupils-and-their-characteristics/2024-25 So the 1840 french nationals at LFCG and LIWC represent 0.02% of pupils in the UK.

And even as you say in your last post french pupils are 80% and not 40 for both of the lycées in London we would still only be talking about under half a percentage point of pupils in the UK....

Merci, c'est tres utile. I agree that a major flaw of my OP has been the ongoing lack of clarity over what the cohort of most lycees is . So, if only 40% of the pupils are French, why have several pps said it's very hard now for non-French speakers to get in & most pupils are Expat kids? Confusing...

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Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 01:54

Thetruthisoutfinally · 13/11/2025 01:34

You sound a bit like Theresa May spouting on about citizens of nowhere op?

I don’t quite see where you are going with this thread tbh.

Britain probably has more international schools spread across the world than most.

Thousands of Brits live abroad and still return to what they consider “home” at Christmas or every summer.

Some people’s lives are transient, full stop! They are not all upper middle class either.

Forces families, children of engineers and musicians. Many come to work in a country for a while and move on. All grist to the inter-cultural mill as far as I am concerned.

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I agree Britain has many international schools. As I've explained, I think London's highly diverse/foreign-born population makes stuff like lycees more comment-worthy. Though if someone in Vienna or Geneva etc wants to do a thread on British expat & immigrant kids not integrating, they'd be well within their rights to, imo.

I agree re military kids, engineers etc being international. But most people aren't in those jobs. I've agreed that some people will always need to be international, that's fine.

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Sichsehnen · 13/11/2025 01:50

@Carla786
Mais avez vous pensé a regarder, ne serait-ce qu'un peu, les stat avant de poser vos constats?

The Office for National Statistics estimates that 189,000 French-born immigrants were resident in the UK in 2020.[9]

20% of the population is under 20 in the UK ( see image).

LFCG is 3 till 18 as is Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill ( lets be generous and say 0-20 for our sums)

Enrollment at LFCG is 3500
Enrollment at Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill is 1100

40% of students at LFCG are French per their website (http://www.lyceefrancais.org.uk/a-propos/notre-etablissement-2/)
40% of students at Lycée International de Londres Winston Churchill are french (https://www.lyceeinternational.london/decouvrir/mission-valeurs-et-histoire/?lang=fr)

So first little sum 189 000 x 20% 37 800 - Estimate of french children between 0 and 20 in the UK

Total Enrollment of LFCG + LIWC = 4600 x 40% = total amount of French kids at LFCG + LIWC = 1840

1840 as a percentage of 37800 = 4.87%

Why are you so worked up over how and where under 5% of French immigrant or Expat children get educated?

In the UK primary and secondary combined there are 9,032,426 pupils https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-pupils-and-their-characteristics/2024-25 So the 1840 french nationals at LFCG and LIWC represent 0.02% of pupils in the UK.

And even as you say in your last post french pupils are 80% and not 40 for both of the lycées in London we would still only be talking about under half a percentage point of pupils in the UK....

To wonder if UK lycees sometimes hinder the integration of French immigrant kids?

Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 01:47

crumplestiltskina · 12/11/2025 20:09

Me too. I don’t especially have an opinion but clicked as was very keen to hear why lychees would harm immigrants in some way

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We need a scary film about murderous lychees! 🤣

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Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 01:45

Thetruthisoutfinally · 13/11/2025 01:34

You sound a bit like Theresa May spouting on about citizens of nowhere op?

I don’t quite see where you are going with this thread tbh.

Britain probably has more international schools spread across the world than most.

Thousands of Brits live abroad and still return to what they consider “home” at Christmas or every summer.

Some people’s lives are transient, full stop! They are not all upper middle class either.

Forces families, children of engineers and musicians. Many come to work in a country for a while and move on. All grist to the inter-cultural mill as far as I am concerned.

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Poor old Theresa May 🤣 She didn't phrase it well, but I do think she had a valid point. I personally think greater world cooperation is something laudable to strive for: imagine how many problems we could solve together if we didn't have idiots like Putin, Xi, etc standing in the way.

But otoh I do think more transient lifestyles can foster a internationalist/global perspective which doesn't see as much the ways people in the home country may not benefit unless they're in an international hub city like London. Eg. EU benefiting Londoners more than other areas (as shown by disparity in voting). There was an interesting thread yesterday I think on 'what makes you feel British?' Or was it 'DD won't feel British?' Anyway, there was one post saying, 'The idea of needing to belong to one place is outdated'. This is an example of the kind of internationalist view which seems to me to be a bit inured to other perspectives.

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Thetruthisoutfinally · 13/11/2025 01:34

Carla786 · 11/11/2025 20:57

How long they stay for was partly my point : I assume you mean that most are planning to settle here? Good if so.

I went to a very multicultural school myself, : mainly European immigrants with also some Asians & Americans. I suppose this kind of shaped my thoughts on the matter : otoh I love the mix of ethnicities & nationalities, otoh I did sometimes feel my friends lived in a sort of London expat bubble.
Maybe partly a function of economics more : I'm from a single parent family & was there on aid, whereas most of them were quite wealthy. I suppose I felt that most people only knew people like themselves and were sometimes quite naive about wider issues. Eg. People were knowledgeable on current events but found it very hard to understand why Brexit had happened. I wished we could have stayed in an improved EU, but I understood the reasons why people had felt it wasn't working, such as the fact that Europeans arguably were able to take much more advantage of job opportunities here than vice versa, and the issues of immigrant workers undercutting pay in lower-paid sectors. Obviously my friends' families directly benefited from the EU,& I'm glad they could,, so I didn't say anything, but I did sense that often people found it hard to see beyond multicultural London-centric ideas (& I say that as someone who loves multicultural London). Tbf though plenty of English people with no immigrant ancestry had similar views!

Another thing was the difference I observed between my friends & their parents' attitudes to the UK. Eg. Many parents didn't really see UK as their home, home was the country they returned to every holiday. Whereas my friends did see the UK as home. One of my closest friends is Russian, for instance, and very happy to live here, esp the way things are there now... But I reflected a few days ago that I wouldn't be happy if her parents hadn't had kids & had just bought houses etc for themselves, because they admittedly don't really feel much connection to the UK. I do think the ongoing trend of Europeans buying up London housing is negative, especially as housing is in crisis.

TLDR : In sum, what I'm getting at is that I don't think lycees are a net good if what they're mainly doing is encouraging transient immigrant workers to come who don't want to put down roots in the UK. If they're mainly being used by people who genuinely want to make their home here, that's positive. If so, I still think that it's better if they can have more non-French pupils rather than less, especially if most pupils live in French-dominated areas.

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You sound a bit like Theresa May spouting on about citizens of nowhere op?

I don’t quite see where you are going with this thread tbh.

Britain probably has more international schools spread across the world than most.

Thousands of Brits live abroad and still return to what they consider “home” at Christmas or every summer.

Some people’s lives are transient, full stop! They are not all upper middle class either.

Forces families, children of engineers and musicians. Many come to work in a country for a while and move on. All grist to the inter-cultural mill as far as I am concerned.

Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 01:33

EastGrinstead · 13/11/2025 00:30

To wonder if UK lycees sometimes hinder the integration of French immigrant kids?

Those poor immigrant children! Doomed to remain in a ghetto like Kensington, denied the opportunity to better themselves.

Don't be silly. Tbf, I've expanded on this a bit later on & I get if you haven't RTFT. Integration isn't just about obvious 'poverty/ghetto' issues. It's also less overt stuff. I've mentioned in earlier posts how friends & acquaintances at my school I felt had quite London-centric/internationalist etc views, & to some extent seemed disconnected from the wider country.

I think it's fair to say that an increasingly mobile, international etc population in the capital city is something worthy of discussion, and lycees are a small part of that in the scheme of things, but they're a window into wider issues. David Goodhart's 'Somewheres' vs 'Anywheres' distinction (ie. People who feel rooted in a particular place vs people who feel more international) & is controversial, but I think it pinpoints valid, not necessarily bad, issues : What does it mean when a capital city is extremely international, as London is? If the capital city is the centre of politics, media, business, etc, what does this mean for how these institutions will present localist/nationalist vs globalist/internationalist debates? What implications does this have for the current negative views other UK areas express about London, where not representative of Britain, and for divisions over Brexit and wider nationalist/populist etc debates that have continued?

Personally, I'd define myself as being between a Somewhere and an Anywhere. I can definitely relate to people who say they feel more like Londoners than anything else, and I can see myself being at home in a different capital city. Otoh I do think Goodhart made a valid point about the potential issues of Anywheres having too much influence over major institutions.

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Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 01:09

RosaMundi27 · 13/11/2025 00:41

I don't know where you got the idea that the French Lycee system is mainly or only for "French immigrant children". I have in-laws who were educated at the Lycée Charles de Gaulle in London. French dad, English mum. The kids have a huge advantage in that they can have further education in France or England as they tend to be fully bilingual. They can opt in secondary level to do either the British or French exams. As for "integration" do you actually know any French people? Because the idea they are foreign enough to have to "integrate" is laughable.

Interesting points, for the first one : an unclear point on this thread has been what the cohort actually is. Several pps say that most children there are French expats' kids mainly here temporarily. Others say it used to be a lot more mixed with Brits & other nationalities but has changed.

Current stats for the Lycee Charles de Gaulle at least do show that 82% of students are French nationals, though of course this doesn't necessarily equate to all being expats.

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HighlyUnusual · 13/11/2025 01:01

The problem with your framing of the question, to me, is this idea of not being 'integrated'- in what way would they not be integrated, if they are able to speak English, have pretty similar cultural values, similar lifestyles and fit in well with other international British and other nationality families living in Kensington or indeed anywhere in London. Many people are dual or triple culture anyway, so the scenario where one or both of the parents want to keep ties with the home language and some culture, whilst living happily in their current cultural home of Britain is pretty normal.

There isn't one way of being British, and I don't know what this intangible 'Britishness' is that they can't achieve by being an international wealthy French-English or other nationality family, they tend to speak multiple languages and be advantaged, so there are not problems of integration as such as they are usually adept code-switchers and they are not suffering any disadvantage economically or otherwise from not being 'integrated' in the more classic sense.

Being 'foreign' whilst living in Britain is not a lack of integration, it's a normal state of affairs for millions, the issue is where you get a divergence of cultural values, lifestyles, exclusion through language or a jarring internal identity that prevents you from getting on with life in your host country or even makes you hostile to it. That's not these children!

RosaMundi27 · 13/11/2025 00:41

I don't know where you got the idea that the French Lycee system is mainly or only for "French immigrant children". I have in-laws who were educated at the Lycée Charles de Gaulle in London. French dad, English mum. The kids have a huge advantage in that they can have further education in France or England as they tend to be fully bilingual. They can opt in secondary level to do either the British or French exams. As for "integration" do you actually know any French people? Because the idea they are foreign enough to have to "integrate" is laughable.

EastGrinstead · 13/11/2025 00:30

To wonder if UK lycees sometimes hinder the integration of French immigrant kids?

Those poor immigrant children! Doomed to remain in a ghetto like Kensington, denied the opportunity to better themselves.

Original poster

Carla786 · 13/11/2025 00:18

ickystickybubblegun · 12/11/2025 17:59

Yes that’s right. I’m not keen on sending my children to the lycee in kensington as it would mean they would lose their Britishness, but also I will be a non french speaker in amongst mostly french speaking parents, which gets annoying after a while.

It does annoy me though that:
-In conversations about immigration, ironically, DHs family and friends are very evangelical about integration and having French Values.
-Selective and racist outrage - this is exactly the same as, for example, an immigrant family coming here and speaking only their country’s language and not integrating. But since it’s French, and they are white, it’s all good.

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On double standards on integration : it's complex. A lot of concerns about integration come when a minority is large and/or has some visible issue prevalent among its members (crime, misogyny, or less extreme stuff like enclaves which essentially operate as 'Little Wherever' rather than as parts of Britain). French expats & migrants tend to be high skilled & not have more visible problems, so less overt issues of integration are overlooked more.

I definitely think a lot of people who talk about 'integration' and 'British Values' really mean they don't want crime/unemployment issues. As pp pointed out, these people don't mind so much (esp more recently) if, say Chinese or Hindu/Sikh or Korean or in this case, French, people still feel more 'other nationality' than British & raise their kids that way, as long as they're hardworking, law-abiding and while connected to their immigrant community, don't have a huge community which isn't very integrated. The Ultra-Orthodox Hasidic cases I cited where teens struggled to speak English could be an exception to this, but I think that's different due to being such a tiny community. (Arguably genuine issues in this community show & other similar small & quiet ones show that people concerned about minority groups' issues often ignore when it doesn't affect the rest of the population).

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Original poster

Carla786 · 12/11/2025 23:06

Pharazon · 12/11/2025 22:49

In France (and in plenty of other countries) sport is something you do at a club, not in school beyond basic PE and maybe some athletics. The UK is kind of a halfway house on this, we do some sport in school, but if you’re actually any good at your sport you do it at a club.

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Good point, I don't think that's necessarily bad, it's just different. It does depend, my school for one offered quite a few sports clubs which consumed some people's weekends (lacrosse etc) but yes, generally sporty people did outside clubs too.

I certainly think the French system is preferable to the situation in some (of course not most) US schools where the sports end up being funded better than the academics

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Original poster

Carla786 · 12/11/2025 22:57

Dolamroth · 12/11/2025 20:40

International schools are found all over the world. They are usually, mostly, attended by children of people who are living in the country on a limited posting. For many people, that is preferable to sending the child to boarding school in the home country. Often part of the expat contract is help with fees.

The children will learn English as a foreign language, just like they would in France or any other French speaking territory they might be from.

I'm not sure why you are so hung up on the Lycée, which is just one of many or why you seem so concerned about instilling Britishness (what does that even mean? I attended school in the UK but can't recall being told about my Britishness) in foreign children who will be leaving.

I don't understand why you don't seem to understand.

Re your point about Britishness, I think this misses the point that culture isn't instilled overtly so much as it's the water you swim in. It's a bit like when people on here say that Britain hasn't got a culture or they don't know what makes British culture distinct. Obviously British schools don't overtly 'instil Britishness' exactly, they just are set up along British lines.

A lycee which uses the French government curriculum, follows laicite principles, focuses on rote learning, has less extracurriculars & sport etc , is clearly culturally different to a British one, because it's set up along French cultural lines. And that's fine. As I've said, I think poetry learning & secularism could be things, among others, that the British system could learn from.

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Pharazon · 12/11/2025 22:49

Carla786 · 12/11/2025 22:44

That's sounds very poor re pastoral care. Why no sports or extracurriculars? Is it that in France these things are seen as stuff you organise yourself?

I think learning poetry is great but there should be balance with rote learning & other kinds imo.

In France (and in plenty of other countries) sport is something you do at a club, not in school beyond basic PE and maybe some athletics. The UK is kind of a halfway house on this, we do some sport in school, but if you’re actually any good at your sport you do it at a club.

Original poster

Carla786 · 12/11/2025 22:44

That's sounds very poor re pastoral care. Why no sports or extracurriculars? Is it that in France these things are seen as stuff you organise yourself?

I think learning poetry is great but there should be balance with rote learning & other kinds imo.

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Dolamroth · 12/11/2025 22:43

Carla786 · 12/11/2025 21:50

I'm sorry, but you're missing the point. I've repeatedly explained this to pps. My point is twofold : should there be as many expats as there currently are, in general (of course there'll always be some, that's fine). And for the students who aren't expats, but permanent immigrants,I don't understand why the parents would want them to have a French education with mostly French children when they've chosen to raise them in Britain.

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I'm really not but ok.
Very few of them will be permanent immigrants so I don't really understand why you think that's a big problem.

I'm an immigrant from the UK, in Central Europe, all the permanent foreign people I know here, have their kids in the local school system. Those on limited contracts send their kids to international school.

The only reason I can think of for moving permanently but still putting your kid in international school is if they are older and won't have time to develop the language skills to pass in the local system eg moving when they are 15 or something.

Original poster

Carla786 · 12/11/2025 22:41

Leakylady · 12/11/2025 16:32

@Carla786 Rubbish at extracurriculars, rubbish at sports. Pastoral care - forgeddaboutit. Rote learning? Well, I can still quote beautiful French and English poetry by heart, and am unafraid of public speaking, the Hegelian dialectic or a spirited argument.

That's sounds very poor re pastoral care. Why no sports or extracurriculars? Is it that in France these things are seen as stuff you organise yourself?

I think learning poetry is great but there should be balance with rote learning & other kinds imo.

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Carla786 · 12/11/2025 22:04

FastFood · 12/11/2025 21:00

First, french people are not all in Kensington, I'm not, for sure, nor are my french friends. It's a very specific demographic that lives and goes to lycée there, more expats than immigrants. They might be in Hong-Kong or New-York next year.

Second, lycée is quite a tricky time, just before uni, so you don't want to mess up a kid's education at such a crucial time by changing the whole school system if you can avoid it. Kids might also not have the best school-ready english, plus they would be behind in british history and english language classes.
Once they have their bac en poche, they can go to uni here and catch-up with British culture and integrate properly.

Third, French culture and British culture are not very different. They won't experience a culture shock once they arrive in uni. Integrating in the UK as a french person is a very natural process, the hardest thing is to catch-up with 40 years of Eastenders, and to learn the lyrics of Don't look back in anger if you're invited to a wedding.

Sorry, extra point : your post seems to imply some expat kids then stay to go to British uni? The norm is to return to France, though?

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Carla786 · 12/11/2025 22:01

FastFood · 12/11/2025 21:00

First, french people are not all in Kensington, I'm not, for sure, nor are my french friends. It's a very specific demographic that lives and goes to lycée there, more expats than immigrants. They might be in Hong-Kong or New-York next year.

Second, lycée is quite a tricky time, just before uni, so you don't want to mess up a kid's education at such a crucial time by changing the whole school system if you can avoid it. Kids might also not have the best school-ready english, plus they would be behind in british history and english language classes.
Once they have their bac en poche, they can go to uni here and catch-up with British culture and integrate properly.

Third, French culture and British culture are not very different. They won't experience a culture shock once they arrive in uni. Integrating in the UK as a french person is a very natural process, the hardest thing is to catch-up with 40 years of Eastenders, and to learn the lyrics of Don't look back in anger if you're invited to a wedding.

Thank you, this is interesting. I know most French people aren't just in Kensington : to be fair most of my friends are because of where I went to school, 🤣 but as I said they're in mainstream not lycees. I agree lycees cater more to an expat crowd, surely.

As I've said, I definitely understand why mobile parents would want to use lycee to minimise disruption.

I agree that French and British culture have a lot of similarity. I wasn't really thinking in 'culture shock' terms, it was more subtle than that. I do think that if families are planning to move permanently for when their kids are toddlers, they should try and send them to mainstream rather than lycee. I think it's somewhat different if the lycee has a mixed cohort rather than mostly French (which apparently is getting less common now) but if you've settled in UK, why use a French educational system?

I think it also sticks out to me because while my friends with immigrant parents felt British, their parents often understandably felt more attached to birth country, but they valued British education strongly (Often a major reason for the move). I can see definite pluses in the lycee system, but it's interesting that French families who settle may still prefer, in contrast, for their kids to have a French education.

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Original poster

Carla786 · 12/11/2025 21:50

Dolamroth · 12/11/2025 20:40

International schools are found all over the world. They are usually, mostly, attended by children of people who are living in the country on a limited posting. For many people, that is preferable to sending the child to boarding school in the home country. Often part of the expat contract is help with fees.

The children will learn English as a foreign language, just like they would in France or any other French speaking territory they might be from.

I'm not sure why you are so hung up on the Lycée, which is just one of many or why you seem so concerned about instilling Britishness (what does that even mean? I attended school in the UK but can't recall being told about my Britishness) in foreign children who will be leaving.

I don't understand why you don't seem to understand.

I'm sorry, but you're missing the point. I've repeatedly explained this to pps. My point is twofold : should there be as many expats as there currently are, in general (of course there'll always be some, that's fine). And for the students who aren't expats, but permanent immigrants,I don't understand why the parents would want them to have a French education with mostly French children when they've chosen to raise them in Britain.

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WearyAuldWumman · 12/11/2025 21:03

FeatheryFlorence · 12/11/2025 15:03

Agree 100% with this. My DD, at ASP, left school at near bilingual level (and got a 7 in her French IB at higher level). Her friend who went to BSP spoke virtually no French at all.

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Yes, that was the problem with the 'International' school in the Hague. Supposedly, the children had Dutch lessons but you wouldn't have known it.