Do you think we should life the two child benefit cap?

To be honest, I imagine in lots of these families that you describe that the parents probably are SEN too as we know there is often a strong genetic component and this is probably impacting their decision making process. Either way I don't think just handing these parents extra money and assuming they have the motivation or capacity to use it to tackle the disadvantages that a child living in poverty would ordinarily face is a huge leap of faith. They clearly aren't able to put their children first in their family planning decisions so why would they suddenly start doing it now?

If I’m being honest as I said in my last post, the families this policy will target are very very likely to have ‘disability’ at play anyway. I know loads of families with 3+ kids, where at least 1 child has SEN and claims DLA, the parents either don’t work or 1 works and they ‘top up’ and they continue to have more DC regardless. In fact I can think of a good handful where all the children have some kind of diagnosis, ‘SEN needs’ and DLA and this doesn’t seem to have put the parents off having more kids at all.

I think disability is a bit of a red herring in a way. It's all about the decision to have three or subsequent children. Really in this day and age and in this economy very few of us can do this without taking a huge financial risk.

Disability or illness could strike any of us or our children at anytime. We could get fired from our job or lose a business through no fault of our own and be out of work for years and potentially never earn what we once did. You need a hell of a lot of financial backing before having a third, fourth etc child is a sensible thing to do. More to the point, I absolutely believe that in this day and age most families have to juggle so much more time and a energy wise. It is a very brave family indeed that feels that they can definitely give enough of these things to lots of children whilst financially supporting everyone.

It’s impossible to just choose not to work on UC - you can’t choose to and just get benefits there are work commitments and sanctions if you don’t look for work and get work. The only exceptions are LCWRA and if a parent is a carer? It’s not some easy choice that’s allowed if you just don’t fancy working !

They are ruthless and I don’t think people realise this. There’s no option to just choose to not work if you don’t fancy it that’s not allowed ! We had similar still had to attend meetings whilst waiting months for dla application to be processed.

The issue is just so complex. I saw a clip from a channel 4 documentary on it recently and it was heartbreaking. So many single parents who were fine and had jobs in a better economy when they decided to have children. Then a spouse got sick. They lost their job. A spouse died. They got divorced and the ex won't pay child support. But on the other hand there was a lady complaining about how her council housing was too small for her family yet she was pregnant with another on the way. Is that a good choice? The children did not ask for this. They are not at fault. They should not have to live in poverty. Of course this is true but at the same time, to be blunt, I don't want to be taxed even more to pay for this. I feel the solution to most of these problems is to look up at the people/ companies/ corporations ludicrously hoarding wealth and paying workers poorly. They should be paying better wages with better worker benefits as well as being taxed more to help with this.

Don't they just.

Before my son's DLA came through, I was still hounded by them to look for work despite the fact that my son was in hospital at the time.

Yes which are genuine cases where they can’t work for specific reasons. It’s just this thread seems to have the attitude that there are some families choosing to not work without any factors such as illness or caring - and that’s not possible- UC come down hard on work commitments and sanctions.

I am sure there are multiple factors why we have this ever increasing number but I’m just pointing out that actually on UC there are quite a number not working due to sickness and caring responsibilities.

I’m aware of that. It’s almost as if we have a health service not fit for purpose where minor illnesses that could be treated and improved early deteriorate to the the point they are disabling, that CAMHS is useless so young people dont get MH or ND diagnoses and support in a timely way and that small issue of a global pandemic and long covid and related issues.

do these poor people you're talking about have two kids or more? if more, why?

But there are over 4 million on LCWRA

I think our main point of disagreement is that I don't think that people are poor because they are irresponsible or too stupid to use their money responsibly. It is so much more complex than that. No doubt that is the case in some instances (as it is in wealthier families, it's just more socially acceptable there.) The poor families I know are trying their absolute best to provide the best lives that they are able to for their families. They don't need to be treated like they've done something wrong, which seems to be the prevailing belief on this thread.
Life is tough for lots of people, but we have reasonable evidence from experts to say that getting rid of the cap will make life a little bit easier for this group of people. I can't really see the argument for not doing it.

do these poor people you're talking about have two kids or more? if more, why?

Or if one half of a couple earn enough.

It’s impossible to just choose not to work on UC - you can’t choose to and just get benefits there are work commitments and sanctions if you don’t look for work and get work. The only exceptions are LCWRA and if a parent is a carer? It’s not some easy choice that’s allowed if you just don’t fancy working !

It’s impossible to just choose not to work on UC - you can’t choose to and just get benefits there are work commitments and sanctions if you don’t look for work and get work. The only exceptions are LCWRA and if a parent is a carer? It’s not some easy choice that’s allowed if you just don’t fancy working !

I think our main point of disagreement is that I don't think that people are poor because they are irresponsible or too stupid to use their money responsibly. It is so much more complex than that. No doubt that is the case in some instances (as it is in wealthier families, it's just more socially acceptable there.) The poor families I know are trying their absolute best to provide the best lives that they are able to for their families. They don't need to be treated like they've done something wrong, which seems to be the prevailing belief on this thread.
Life is tough for lots of people, but we have reasonable evidence from experts to say that getting rid of the cap will make life a little bit easier for this group of people. I can't really see the argument for not doing it.