Do you think we should life the two child benefit cap?

It's the falling birthrate. We need people to look after us and generate tax income in our old age.

Most people receiving the child element of UC are working hard in minimum wage jobs - they are the people caring for your elderly relative, the teaching assistants in your children’s classrooms, cleaning our hospitals and serving you in the shop and restaurants etc… They are decent, hard working people who work just as hard for their money as those in higher paid careers. They spend every penny they have just trying to give their children the minimum they need. Wages are too low for the cost of living for many people. I think these people have as much right to have 3 children as those working in higher paid careers. The UC child element doesn’t cover all the expenses of having a child and so it would be a silly decision to have more children to become more wealthy. Many people who have more than two children have had their circumstances change, maybe a divorce, death or illness in the family. For all these reasons I think that lifting the two children benefit cap is the right thing to do.

As much as I like getting things for free, my DCs don’t need free school meals and the money would be better spent elsewhere. I donate back to the school more then the free meals cost my year 1 dd gets (as it’s universal until end of year 2).

My belief is that child benefit should be given as vouchers which are restricted in how they are spent. Yes this is very nanny state, but there is always a perception benefits are spent on alcohol, vales or cigarettes

You assume that CB is spent on fags n' drink, perhaps. Don't assume it's general. As the vast majority of parents receive CB, and CB is there to assist with all the costs associated with bringing up children (which go far beyond feeding them) have you thought through how your scheme will work? I'm always struck by how often many proposed "solutions" to lowering the cost of a govt-funded thing are more complex and would involve a huge amount of additional costs (admin, printing) to implement them.

If you're a higher tax payer then you earn far more than UC could ever have got you, cap or no cap, so why would you not have been incentivised to work?

People on mumsnet love this little fantasy that if we lift children out of poverty all the high earning 'strivers' will kick back and stop working. It's so blatantly not true and ridiculous.

Yes, I hated reform before but now I’m starting to think that they might be a better option then labour. I certainly can’t vote labour.

This! If you have to rely on benefits you should not be having more kids! Poverty should be managed in other ways.
If you have 2 kids and can’t afford 4 don’t have them!
I have a Merc but would like a Porsche but I can’t afford one. I don’t expect the tax payers of this country to pay for it.

Of course the cap should be lifted! I can't understand why anyone would want children to stay in poverty when experts have told us how to prevent that!

Unfortunately there are some who are affected by the cap who with every incentive going still wouldn't give a toss about their child's welfare even if they were lifted out of poverty. I think it was well known that a lot of the free courses put on at sure start centres didn't attract the people they were meant to.

I agree there are way too many children in poverty, and that is absolutely not right. I don't know what the answer is but I'm not sure that just lifting the cap is the answer. I think a lot of work needs to be done to encourage those families that aren't incentivised to get out of poverty. Perhaps funded childcare places in colleges so parents can study to allow an option to progress out of poverty could be an option. I think there are possibly ways but I am not sure just throwing money at families is the only answer.

This. If they raise taxes and lift the benefit cap in the same budget they’re really not reading the room.

If they remove this then raise our tax I’ll be done. Already feeling completely mugged off.
Sick of working myself to death to fund everyone else getting more money while we get nothing yet are massively struggling.

It's not child benefit
There has never been a cap on child benefit
It's the child element of universal credit.

Yes, absolutely - don't know why I said child benefit!

I suspect Labour are potentially doing this to try to get a portion of the public on side, and they are drip feeding it to the media to see reaction.

i also think it’s a bad idea, and there are better ways, and we should not be spending money we haven’t got to increase benefits. I suspect overall the public is going to be appalled. Other than those who benefit, but thay will be limited if taxes go up.

I was a single mum when my kids were 1 and 3. I worked FT my entire life. Included commute to. No need to say it was very hard but what kept me going was knowing I could provide more kids the extra that I considered important for their upbringing. The things that some posters seem to think as essentials.

Through working FT, I gained three promotions. I became a higher tax earner. I wasn't eligible for CB any longer. I contributed financially to our society and helped others in the way (at least I hope so!). What would have been my incentive though if ultimately, my kids would have got the same opportunities if I'd stopped work or only worked very PT? Where would I be now?

There has to b a distinction between essential and good. After school activities are not essential. Many kids in working and middle class families don't ever attend any and manage fine.

No. I don’t think the cap should be lifted. It’s going to cost £350b at a time when our economy is on its knees.

If Labour want to hand over to Reform at the next election then raising taxes to incentivise poorer families to have more children than they can afford is going the right way about it.

Well of course they are, but they aren’t paying for it.

People are supremely good at asserting how other people’s money should be spent.

Lots of people on MN pretend this is impossible but I have a whole section of my family who have, and continue to live like this. Multiple children, no jobs (bad backs) and running new cars every 3 years. One set of kids now old enough to be working, but just having kids instead. And so it continues.

Yes, absolutely. It particularly impacts those from big families on free school meals.
It will make an enormous difference to many children. In terms of enough clothing without donations, better quality / more nutritional food and being able to actually buy food on a regular basis. School trips. Things to support their learning at school such as a Doodle Learning subscription. It will help social mobility and give children and families with 3+ kids a chance to breathe and not be constantly anxious about affording the groceries and panic when their kids need new clothes

But children's own parents are, in the majority of cases, the ones who know what their children need

Like more siblings they can’t afford to feed?

Because circumstances change. Because contraception fails. Because it brings joy to your family and you thought it would work out and it didn't. Because people make mistakes. Because abusive men rape or baby trap women. Because you could afford them but then you lost your job. Because it was twins. Because of a million other reasons which may or may not be sensible, but don't change the fact that once a baby has been born it shouldn't be made to live in poverty in one of the richest nations in the world as some kind of punishment to its parents for not making more fiscally astute choices.

Keeping the two child cap hasn't reduced the birth rate at all (and we don't actually want that either). It just forces kids into poverty. Whether or not you think people should have made the choice to have another baby, do you really think it's right for that baby to have to grow up in poverty because of the choices made by its parents?

Of course parents should be more responsible and not have children they can't afford but it's not the fault of the children that they have been born into a large family.

It's not an overwhelming majority, it's around 55% are working. I am assuming a lot of those working aren't working full time. Increasing the child benefit cap isn't going to encourage people to get jobs or contribute more to our economy is it?! If anything they are teaching us that the government will pay you for more reckless decisions. My last sentence is aimed at those who don't consider whether they can afford more than 2 children, not all people with 2+ who have found themselves in a difficult situation. This government is so soft.

The people paying the extra tax will be big losers though. Many of those won’t have 3 or 4 dc. They live within their means even though it’s a struggle.

Basic need is not after school clubs! Dc on fsm often get school trips for free. They get PP money for educational help too. The families just above the cut off are the ones who get nothing and will have to cut back to pay more tax.

Our bigger issue is women not having dc at all. We don’t want more problem dc. We need more dc where parents can afford to raise them. Where’s the help to persuade them to have dc?

Lots of people have made the sacrifice not to have a third child simply because they couldn't afford it

I also know a single mother with 9 children by 7 different dads and she lives off the system, never has worked and has no intention of it. None of her children have gone without, she is better off then the average person working, kids have designer clothes and she is out all the time or they have several take aways a week.

The whole benefit system needs an overhaul so that the people who actually deserve help get it and the people who are milking it don't