Do you think we should life the two child benefit cap?

I’m really torn on this issue.

As a lifelong Labour voter, I am deeply concerned that the number of children living in poverty remains stubbornly high. But we are told time and time again that the economy can’t afford the current welfare bill. So can we or can’t we afford it?

But I don’t think scrapping the cap will change things for the better for children. Before the cap, we had hundreds of thousands of children living in poverty. Why would it be any different this time?

What we need to do is to do things differently.

Rather than lift the 2 child limit, I think I would prefer to see more being done around free school meals. That more families should be eligible (but not universal). That more money should go into school meals to ensure that the nutritional quality and amount provided is increased. There should be more funding to increase availability of before and after school clubs to provide nutritious breakfast and teas.

Yes, I am aware that I am suggesting that the state should pay for children to have 3 healthy meals at school. That this will cost a lot of money. That parents should be providing this but the reality is that some can’t. But if you really want to lift children out of poverty, good food and being in school is a bloody good start.

I say all of this as a child of the 70s and 80s who grew up in relative poverty. We survived on my dad’s low wage and the Family Allowance. No benefits for my disabled sister (except the nappies provided by the NHS). But she did go to a fantastic all through SEN school. That’s what helped us.

Then there is money from the DLA

Would that be optional or forced?

These parents could be carers with children in receipt of dla though ? There are so many possibilities other than choosing not to work (which you can’t as you’ll get sanctioned ?)

But sadly load s of people don't give a shit about the kids. They just want to show the parents a lesson.

Anyone who thinks opportunities or money available to children who's parents received benefits are at all comparable to those with working parents earning a salary are absolutely delusional. You know it's not true yourself which is why you said it provided extras for your children, that was literally your incentive yet you're acting like people have no incentive.

Personally for all the demonising of poor or disabled parents on here I'm much more concerned for the poor children being raised by grown adults who find it impossible to empathise with children in poverty. If you're a parent and resent another child having a free school meal or meals child benefit that might make their home warm at night, you've gotta be extremely cold inside. Hopefully your own children never have any ill physical or mental health or disabilities that prevent them from working or working full time lest you start considering them scroungers too.

Completely agree

Kids in general have life due to their parents choices. Vegetarian parents don't generally feed their kids meat for example.

No on
e us saying the kids can't eat , merely if the parents want freebie meals then they have to get over their issues with it. Otherwise they just have to pay or send packed lunch like anyone else

Exactly

What I said preemptively in my earlier post is that no child should be deprived of fundamental provisions like food because of their parents’ choices or perceptions. So if, by ‘that’s their issue’, you mean that’s the children’s issue, yes, it does, sadly, become the children’s issue, because they are the ones who suffer harm as a result of parental choices.

Time and time again studies have shown that the best way to help people in poverty is to give them money. But people don’t like that because they think just because people are poor they don’t know what’s best for them.

YANBU. We stopped at one child, and waited until we were really quite ‘old’ parents before having that one, because we planned ahead, cut our financial cloth and wanted DD to have the best opportunities that we could possibly offer her, especially in today’s highly competitive world. Many of my friends - mostly dual income families - have done the same, having at most two DC. What I see around me, though - at DD’s school and in wider society- is others blithely having 3 or 4 children without giving a second thought to what those children’s future prospects are going to look like. I appreciate that it isn’t the fault of the children themselves, but what should the State prop up these parents’ poor (or indeed lack of) decision making? This is what lifting the two child limit effectively does, and given the tax rises that have been mooted alongside this measure we are directly penalising hard work and responsible decision making to pay for this.

Conversely, I do think we should be taking other, much broader measures that make the UK more family friendly in general and incentivise younger generations - not just those claiming benefits - to raise children.

I think the productivity crisis is due to education. Quite often I meet people who don't care about school or their kids education. Some who are chomping at the bits for their younger relatives to leave school at 16, and claim UC when they turn 18.

Around 4.5 million children are currently living in poverty. This has a huge impact on their well-being, mental health, and attainment
And here we go....how many of these 4.5M are actually living as well as those with parents with a higher taxable income?

Because again, the figures used to count someone as in poverty are misleading. It doesn't count child maintenance, it doesn't count cash and other benefits given by family members.

My old neighbour was 'in poverty'. Her kids enjoyed luxuries the average FT working families couldn't afford.

That’s fair enough I can see where you’re coming from.
I’m from that target audience though (low income, FSM), and I’m not adverse to professionals at all. There’s place for both I think, but I would only go and talk to the volunteers if I’m actually going there anyway. Eg I can see them hanging about at a work festival or something.

A drop in clinic is something I would make a dedicated journey for. So I think it’s important to have both so that everyone can have access to help if they need it.

I don’t think we should lift it. The sooner people realise that your kids are your responsibility to fund the better.

There’s not going to be an IMF bailout. It would cost half of the IMF’s total balance sheet. 🤣 Many other countries are in far more need with problems that actually do require help rather than just leaders starting to do their job with a minimum level of competence. Nobody is going to step in and save the UK, I’m afraid.

What will happen if this economic mismanagement continues, to which we’ve been subjected for decades now but gets worse with every iteration of supposed “government” - is that inflation and interest rates will go up simultaneously leaving the BoE with no room for manoeuvre, while productivity and growth continue to flatline and the budget deficit increases continually despite higher taxes, as will the trade deficit due to us shooting ourselves in the foot with Brexit knocking 6-8% of GDP per the latest analyses (imagine what that money could have done to resolve many of these issues?!), i.e. cost of living goes up, business investment goes down, unemployment goes up as will welfare, businesses do not expand or create the higher paying jobs we need, public services will become unsustainable even at current levels, skills shortages will rise as those who can emigrate/ cut hours due to punitive tax rates, and tax revenues will continue to fall turning these self-inflicted “black holes” into a supermassive black hole.

People will simply continue to get poorer and poorer across the whole of society as the doom loop accelerates and - based on recent threads here and commentary in the media - the electorate will continue blaming each other rather than demanding competent economic management from our politicians and supporting evidence-based policy solutions that would actually improve things.

Apparently people prefer to fight over crumbs of the imaginary unicorn cake and vote for politicians who promise they’ll give them a bigger one (even though it’ll still be invisible, of course), rather than each contribute one of the ingredients to bake a real loaf of bread together.

Around 4.5 million children are currently living in poverty. This has a huge impact on their well-being, mental health, and attainment. The amount of young people I worked with in secondary schools who sleep without bed covers, wear clothes too small, have had police involvement because they have no hobbies and turn to antisocial behaviour, are illiterate, have poor personal hygiene, low self confidence, struggle with self harm is unfathomable. Most of the parents of these children did work but in low paid jobs. They need support. Not just financial but community support. Lifting the 2 child cap will not solve these problems, but it is a blooming good start.

This would not encourage people to have more children in the slightest. And even if it did, we have falling birth rates which will bring its own problems.

The 2 child limit should be lifted but a benefit cap remain. The impact of child poverty will cost us so much more in the long run than the cost of lifting the cap.

Keep it. Don't reward people for having kids they can't afford. When you hand money to parents there is no guarantee it will ever reach their kids. Spend the money to address child poverty in other, more effective ways.

You can already get help with childcare for child number 3 through UC. It's only thr child element you can't claim

I meant after a day working in low paid employment it’s easy to say better yourself but when you’re exhausted it’s impossible. Most people on UC work.

Exactly this. Its pensions that are bankruping the country. Not hungry kids!

Sigh. The poster has said in a previous post they don’t work so why the whataboutery from you that they might be free to post as possibly not working a 9-5? They are RETIRED.

I’m baffled but don’t want to engage further, obviously a misunderstanding so let’s just leave it there.