To be upset that friends all love ‘new girl’ when I don’t

You obviously have little or no experience of real life. I speak from a very experienced and academic background of dealing with troubled people. And, where in my post did I say anything about reacting? Leaving the group? Non, whatsoever! But, I did say stay and observe. Dear, dear me. You really need to get real, smell the coffee and realise what a toxic world we really live in. Are you one of these touchy feely nurturing types?

Came here thinking you meant the show with Zoe D and was disappointed.
Move on if you don't like the vibe, life is too short.

The colleague I mentioned upthread was very manipulative and was only interested in cultivating friendships with people who had something she wanted. That could be anything, admiration/a holiday home/access to the boss. Clearly I didn’t have anything she wanted so I got ignored.

Over time, people began to see through her though she maintained a loyal cohort until she left quite abruptly and ditched the lot of them for a new fan club. Not gonna lie, I did enjoy a bit of schadenfreude when they were all devastated at being dumped.

It is pretty standard stuff in groups. Choose one to one friendships that tend to be free of this kind of dynamics if you find it difficult.

Trust your gut here. She will out herself soon I promise you!

I agree with either edging away from the group or staying and observing for now. I wouldn't start another WhatsApp group. Like you say they aren't even close friends.

@purplerain100 do you have many close friends? Maybe find things to do away from these people?

I really hope this is tongue in cheek: it is melodrama worthy of ITV daytime.

None of this woo is going to help the OP. It's going to make her look paranoid and batshit and drive a wedge between her and her friends. No wonder so many people on this forum struggle to make and keep friends with these sorts of attitudes.

People need to massively calm down. All we know for sure is that the OP and Sue don't love each other: we don't really know why and we only have the OP's word that its a Sue problem (as opposed to an OP problem). It's entirely possible that Sue is a harmless person who is trying to make friends and the OP has taken an irrational and jealous dislike to because she doesn't like her friendship group being infiltrated.

If Sue is indeed a master manipulator as some people are speculating then trying all sorts of daft strategies to alienate her is just going to make OP look utterly mad.

This sort of things happens in friendship groups, its as old as the hills and there's nothing you can do about it other than to accept that people make their own choices and sail sweetly on. People will choose who they will choose. You stand the best chance of coming out of it well if you don't behave like a complete dick.

Sounds like she is using chilly vibes to control - she has clocked you're not buying into the Sue Show. It's a difficult one to handle as your friends are appearing not to see through it. She's doing it because she needs to be central to feel safe. It's a sign of fragility whereas you're showing quiet strength. Honestly, I'd just watch it unfold - you might find yourself drifting a bit from the group as Sue dominates but leave the door open and no need for any drama or getting anyone on side - let it play out. You've clocked her, you have every right to be in the group but if it becomes her group, you can assess your options. It's annoying when you have a good group but things change and not always for the better.

First of all, don't remove yourself. Take this as an opportunity to 'study' human behaviour. Sue is an intelligent master manipulator. Her brain runs on limbic power and she can cut through situations with her fast scanning. However, this will also be her downfall. First, look at her background - job?, children? husband? What is her position? Is she stable or does she have a litany of catastrophes behind her? She is probably a good orator and can spin a good yarn to keep people fascinated. I belong to a group where we have a woman like this. Let's call her Big Sue. She is like a galleon in full sail. She enters the room and it stops. There is a discussion, whatever she has done is better, bigger, wider and more powerful than anyone else. Many a time she has made my fur stand on end. However, recently, I came across some evidence (can't say what as it would be outing) that showed her up to be the loneliest, saddest individual. The types of people she hangs out with after midnight - people I would run a mile from for fear of my reputation - the kind of people who make local headlines for shady stuff. She still plays the drama queen as a very mature woman. Your Sue is insecure inside or she is a master narcissist and all of you will soon see her rage side. Just hang in there. It won't last forever.

Agreed. There's no evidence of anything other than that ‘Sue’ and the OP just aren’t crazy about one another. Sue doesn’t have to be an evil Machiavellian mastermind plotting world domination and clocking the OP as resistant to her plots, and the OP doesn’t have to be the only one who chose the red pill. It’s just a clash of personalities, most likely.

The most annoying thing I find with people like this is when others make excuses ( as with a few posts on here) that these people are lacking in self-confidence, or feeling shy so go OTT in their behaviour.

So what?

They should still have some kind of self awareness of themselves and how they are excluding others.

And why can't their apparent lack of self-confidence result in them being quiet fgs, and not the LOUD LISTEN TO ME EVERYONE person who is such a bore

People are massively overthinking and over engineering this.

The hard truth is it’s impossible to know what “Sue” thinks and what is in her head. If I am brutally honest I am not sure how much of this is actually happening and how much is in your head.

Going off on conspiracy theories about whether she thinks you are less easy to manipulate etc (as some people have suggested) won’t help this. It will only make you more paranoid and accentuate to the others that you have a problem with her, which wont make you look good at all.

I have observed this sort of thing play out many times and if there’s one thing I have learned its that you can’t control or even influence how others respond to a person and trying to do so will make you look small and petty.

All you can do is rise above it. Take a step back if you need to. Be pleasant but not overly available and for God’s sake don’t scheme to exclude her of anything like this: it will backfire and make you look ridiculous.

What will be will be and the only thing you have control over is your own behaviour and dignity.

Does anyone have a link to the Wendy thread?

In schools they define exclusionary behaviour as bullying. So if Sue is freezing you out of conversations and setting up WA groups that she's not adding you to, she's bullying you. Is there someone in the group that you can trust to have a quiet word with, to find out if they know of any issue? You may find that, despite appearances to the contrary, the rest of them are sitting there feeling as frustrated as you with her convo hogging! And are also thinking that everyone else, you included, is in her thrall. Definitely worth putting feelers out, and if anyone else is feeling the same, start meeting up separately. It's a privilege to be invited to join an established friendship group but hijacking it isn't on.

Thank you! One of life's fixers, exactly. School mum is not the only time I've been whacked, just the one that fits the OP's case, but I have so many more examples....no good deed goes unpunished indeed. Sorry that you've been stung too.

Don’t however tip into gossiping or bad mouthing her, that will reflect badly on you.

Another vote for she's insecure and you know something. I had this exact dynamic with friends where one also happened to be a relative and I knew her very secret & very messed up home life in detail, I think she had had such a nasty experience of people so far in her life that she just assumed on some level that I would use my knowledge against her if given any 'power' so she had to constantly put me down 😔 I feel so sorry for her to this day. But also had to accept that if my friends couldn't see what was going on and kindly tease her out of it, then they weren't the kind of people I wanted as friends really, and moved on. It makes me a bit sad but I don't regret it exactly. Maybe I was never a great friend in the first place 🤷🏽‍♀️

If she shuts you down when you try to speak, always make what you say a question to another member of the group (“How are things going with X, Liz?”, etc). Then when Sue interrupts, it will make her look bad to the rest of the group because she’ll be interrupting Liz.

Do this for a while - always make your comments questions to others. Then continue the conversation with Liz or whoever. This will make it hard for Sue to shut you down, ensure you’re not pushed out, and show the others what Sue is like.

The others find her entertaining and fun, she is bringing some sparkle to the group, you however do not trust her and she senses it.

Rarely, a group might itself with a big character and an agenda to match. The agenda might include freezing out or causing drama. This might feed a need for theatrics or it might be they are genuinely have unhelpful motives. Either way it usually signals the end of the group, as it causes too much friction.

In your place I would evaluate whether any one in that group has potential to be a proper friend(s) and invest some time into them. Continue to enjoy the group for as long as it serves you. Although it might be hard, it’s worth evaluating why she pushes your buttons, and why you are not able to join her if ger intentions are good - which is just to have a fun and enjoyable time? Taking her as she is? Maybe it’s not the nurturing group it once was?

@purplerain100
You can't change Sue but you can change how you react to her.
Personally I wouldn't give up a friendship group because of one person, you enjoy your other friendships so don't let her ruin it.
The others don't see it. . . yet?
Before you cut yourself off can you try something else?
Mirror her behaviour, she doesn't like you, act the same way.
Say to yourself "I see you" with a inner smile, you know who she is and what she's doing but your not letting her get the better of you.
She would probably not be bothered if you left, don't give her that power, take the power back, stay and continue your other friendships.
Don't let her live rent free in your head, if she annoys you, push it away "Sue doesn't have any power over me"
Its awful and I feel for you, some people never get past the mean girl stage, it's actually pathetic.
In fact add "pathetic" with a huge eye roll to your coping strategy ❤️

It's annoying and disappointing when this happens. I agree with others who say that she probably doesn't like you because you helped her and she wants to push away any memory of vulnerability. However, i suspect she also sees you as a pushover, hence why she shuts you down whenever you speak. You need to work on yourself to not allow that to happen. Use it as an opportunity to practice bringing the conversation back to yourself. If she interrupts you don't stop talking just carry on talking over her. It may feel awkward but it will make it clear to the group that it is she who is interrupting you and being rude. If she changes the subject politely listen and then bring the conversation back to what you were saying. Again this may be awkward but it will make it clear to the group that you weren't done talking yet. You need to be more assertive and not allow her to dominate you. She doesn't get to decide how much air time you have in the group - you do! You don't need her permission to speak. At the moment you are allowing her to dominate you without protest so the group won't see what is happening. If you use this as an opportunity to learn assertiveness skills it may halp you stay in the group. Also i suspect that other people in the group may not love her as much as you think they do. Try to meet one to one with a few from the group and just make the odd comment about Sue to see if they pick up on it eg 'oh yes she loves to talk doesn't she'. If the other person says 'oh yes she's so funny and interesting isn't she' you can leave it at that. But if they say 'oh i know we do 't seem to have such good conversations any more' you have a way in. Good luck!

Are you an introvert?
I describe myself as a sociable introvert, but I struggle with big extrovert personalities for the reasons you say. I feel quite over powered by them. She can’t change her personality- that’s how she is - and she might find you standoffish if you’re not saying much in the group, because she operates very differently. I’m not defending, but I think it’s two different Modus operandi at play.

I was in a group once with a big extrovert personality like this and the group dynamic eventually broke down.

YANBU as you're entitled to your feelings, but has it always been that way in this friend group? Could it be that you see them as friends way more than they see you as a friend? Have you been excluded before, or something like that? I feel as if things like that don't just come out of the blue.

The problem that you helped her with at the beginning, is it something that she may now be embarrassed about sharing?

I’d definitely ask whether any other WhatsApp groups have been created without you.