To think the UK unfairly taxes families?

What about all those who don’t work? Feels like working people are in the minority these days

Our time won’t come: there is unlikely to be a state pension by the time we are old

Actually, that is a very good idea!!!

With poll tax, there were also regional factors. My DM then lived alone in Sheffield, where the rates were eyewatering. The poll tax worked in her favour, but in London (where rates were lower) my poll tax increased quite a bit. I still think a per capita tax on adults to pay for local services is fairer but we have invented so many exemptions and benefit credits since the early 1990s that we'd end up in an equally acrimonious argument - just differently framed.

We could shift to an LVT, as Burnham seems to propose, with a fairly modest per capita levy per adult on top. But nothing, ever, is going to please everyone.

I have many gripes about the unfairness of the tax system, but this isn't one of them.

I have many gripes about the unfairness of the tax system, but this isn't one of them.

Thatcher didn’t scrap it. It was still in force when she was forced to resign, essentially it was her downfall. It was Major who decided it was more trouble than it was worth and got rid of it. It was unusual as regressive taxation normally affects the very poorest the worst, poll tax adversely affected people across the board.

I agree. I think Maggie bowed to pressure too easily to scrap it. The problem was that the actual "per person" cost was hugely more than it was first mooted to be when the idea was first suggested. Turned out far more people than expected were to be exempt or heavily discounted due to various reasons, i.e. on benefits, unemployed, etc., so the "per person" cost of the unexpectedly small number who were paying in full was far higher than planned, which is what caused the unpopularity etc. Basically, whoever "crunched" the numbers at the planning/feasibility stage cocked up big time. A lot of the rioting were from people who simply didn't want to pay anything as they were accustomed to a virtual "free ride", i.e. sons/daughters living with parents, where the parents paid the rates, but the sons/daughters were liable to pay poll tax - they didn't like the idea so rioted. Maggie should have stood firm and crunched the riots rather than rolling over.

Exactly - it costs the same for five people, whether they live in five houses or one. Bring back the poll tax!

2.7m UK workers recieve UC.
Between 80 and 90% of working families recieve some form of free childcare hours.
About 22% of female graduates are childfree by their late 40s, and only 18% of male graduates.

Because it costs the same to provide policing and street lighting, bin collections etc to one person as it does for five people.

It's an unpopular view, but Margaret Thatcher's poll tax, aka a charge per adult per capita, was probably fairer.

This thread is old enough to be drawing its pension

Only getting 25% off your council tax if you're single seems unfair to me. Why not half?

It's sad you're choosing to see a benefit to older people, who already put in their time and taxes, as an insult to younger people. Are you one of those who want to drag everyone down to your level rather than bring everybody up. "I had to struggle so you will too" type of attitude. Instead of working to make things better for everyone.

You will get the same treatment when you're older. Younger people are not being punished or treated poorly. They will always have to pay tax. Stop dragging others down. Why on earth should a person too old to work still be getting taxed full stop. I think ~50 years of contributions are enough.

It’s easy enough for them anyway. Just don’t vote for any government that threatens your pension rights.

What a ridiculous response. That is the way our society is built, is that you contribute to NI when you are working, it's been that way for over a 100 years so that you can receive a pension when you are less able to work due to old age, You will rely on this too. We all rely on this.

Are you planning to say no to a state pension?

But you don't know that.
You are defaulting to the position that everything was better in the past and everything is awful for you now and will be worse in the future.
You don't know what will happen so it's bizarre to justify your anger by projecting to what may never happen.

But are you comparing their jobs/professions/responsibilities with your job at their age??

Yes, they’re in extremely similar occupations.

But are you comparing their jobs/professions/responsibilities with your job at their age??

My son is on a much high wage than I am on now and also the kind of wage I was on when I was his age. BUT, his work/profession is completely different so you can't really compare. If I'd have had his job/profession when I was his age, I'd have been on a much higher wage too!

You can only really compare if genuinely like for like.

We already have a relatively high tax free personal allowance compared with other comparable countries.

Although I hate the man, I think Gordon Brown had it right when he introduced the lower 10% income tax rate instead of raising the personal allowance. Unfortunately, like most things he did, he ballsed it up and removed the lower starting 10% rate after a couple of years. But the idea was spot on.

We need to broaden the tax base, get more people accustomed to paying tax, even at low rates, to avoid the behavioural issues around the thresholds. If someone was paying 10% tax on an income of say £10k, they would be less likely to take behavioural steps to stop their income rising and paying a bit more tax, whereas someone on say £12k may well take planning steps to avoid paying any tax if their income would otherwise rise to £13k. Yes, I know tax is only on the "extra", but peoples' behaviour can sometimes not make sense to others but make perfect sense to them!

I was talking about families not someone young enough to want to holiday in Magaluf. Two of our adult children in their 30s are better off than we are now, let alone back when they were the same age as their children. You’re so blinkered on this issue that it’s pointless engaging with you.

We are going round and round in circles here.

If you honestly think that having a cheap package deal to Magaluf once a year and getting your nails done in a cheap nail bar but being unable to buy a home or have children because you still need to live in your parents's basement constitutes a better quality of life then I would question your entire judgement.
I am really tired of older people moaning about how tough their life was, while completely failing to even try to understand or address younger people's frustrations. No one has denied that some things have improved, rights for women being one of them, but it is simply stupid/disingenuous to pretend that the young have a better deal or a better qol. The current pensioners are the most fortunate generation ever, past and future and are still getting special treatment by the tax system. That is clearly unfair.

Your first point is irrelevant. It doesn't justify pensioners paying a lower rate of tax now.
Your second point is ridiculous. Do you have a crystal ball so that you can see what the tax rates will be in 2 years time, never mind 30?! Do people honestly assume that subsequent generations will enjoy exactly the same benefits that the current pensioners are enjoying? Surely you can see that this won't happen and that many of today's workers will pay huge rates of tax to pay for current pensioners and then not receive state pensions themselves.

Why are you ignoring that pensioners paid it too when they were working?

You will also not pay it when you reach pension age.

Hmmm….no. Not really. Not for everyone.