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Original poster

Fuck it - the government will look me

666 replies

Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 09/11/2025 09:05

I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the way our country is run. I love my country, but what on earth can I do to fix it? the Rachel reeves pension and stamp duty rumours have tipped me over the edge.

I believe 90% of our lives is the summation of our own choices. Bar (some of) our own (and families) health and tragic life events, there is very little we can’t choose in this country.

I’m not saying that the playing field is fair - I absolutely acknowledge that some groups face structural barriers that make good choices harder. Others are unaware those choices even exist. That’s where government should step in—not to equalise outcomes, but to equalise access to meaningful choice.

I think we all acknowledge that bad governments are ones that take away choices. This government, however is also taking away choice by incentivising bad choices. Policies should nudge people toward self-sufficiency, not make state reliance easier than self-reliance, or rewarding short-term decisions over long-term

Our Government should be working towards equitable availability of choice (not equal - see below) to make sure those choices are as easy and available to everyone. Policies should be in place to make sure people are encouraged to make the right choices.

I increasingly feel like I make the right choices and think what was the bloody point!

I’m going to wish I never paid into my pension soon and went on holiday instead! Should I just spend my money, move into a smaller house and quit my job. At this point I think I’d be better off.

Jargon Buster - EQUALITY - It’s assumed there is a level playing field and everyone gets the same resources. EQUITY - Everyone gets what they need to succeed, which may mean different levels of support.

OP posts:
Carla786 · 10/11/2025 15:12

WildLimePoet · 09/11/2025 12:36

The benefits don’t grow on a tree, where they go out in the morning and harvest the £ notes because they inherited the three in their backyard.

That is taxpayer funding. And enough funding to buy new cars. More than the majority of non benefit claiming people in work can afford.

Show quote history

Surely you believe disabled people should receive adequate support, though?

Carla786 · 10/11/2025 14:56

WildLimePoet · 09/11/2025 12:22

Lie. Motability cars are taxpayer funded. Almost one in 4 new cars are taxpayers buying cars for people who don’t work.

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So you don't want to pay to help disabled people?

fivebyfivefaith · 10/11/2025 14:29

OhFeckWhatNow · 10/11/2025 14:02

I'm single, live alone.
Just done the maths - I'd be £180 a week better off on minimum wage than on Universal Credit.
Hardly "marginally less money".

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is that including rent? I’ve had to claim UC for the first time and get £400 a month!

Overthemhills · 10/11/2025 14:27

@BionicWomansAnkle
sone of those things do affect me.
Im not trying to be difficult to you or anyone in particular- inheritance is one thing that will affect my family and more specifically my daughter - she will inherit, personally I won’t.
I don’t care for this government one bit but I don’t think that was the point of the OP…

OhFeckWhatNow · 10/11/2025 14:02

Kendodd · 09/11/2025 14:22

A single person working a minimum wage job would also be leading a very frugal existence with hardly enough money for the basics. Plus, they'd have to spend most of their waking hours working a boring, hard, thankless job. Frankly, I think I'd choose unemployment, with the abundance of free time that brings and only slightly marginally less money.
Low paid working people have the worse lot in this country imo. They also get looked down upon and blamed for their own poverty despite the fact the country would collapse without them.

Show quote history

I'm single, live alone.
Just done the maths - I'd be £180 a week better off on minimum wage than on Universal Credit.
Hardly "marginally less money".

BionicWomansAnkle · 10/11/2025 11:34

Overthemhills · 10/11/2025 10:57

@BionicWomansAnkle
What are you talking about?
Literally which of any freedom has been taken away?
And you have no idea what does or doesn’t affect me personally or financially.

which of any freedom has been taken away?

Taken away and limited: Tax free non state children’s education/plurality of education, to safely rent out a property without risking bankruptcy, to pass down a generational farm, to employ someone without risk of ending employment if they are unsuitable, to be upwardly mobile in a property market, to be downwardly mobile in the property market, to pass your pension into your children tax free…that was last year, this year remains to be seen but it’s not going to be pro growth is it?

Overthemhills · 10/11/2025 10:57

@BionicWomansAnkle
What are you talking about?
Literally which of any freedom has been taken away?
And you have no idea what does or doesn’t affect me personally or financially.

BionicWomansAnkle · 10/11/2025 10:08

Overthemhills · 10/11/2025 09:33

@BionicWomansAnkle
I think you are deliberately missing the point - the choices you speak of are not being “taken away” - the ability to give gifts of money or own second homes or have private healthcare and other wealth based activities are not available to everyone anyway. It is not what the OP is proposing and it’s not what I was talking about - the OP specifically speaks about a government that should give everyone the same starting point.
Clearly, you don’t think that should ever happen. That’s fine.
You feel aggrieved that Labour’s budget might impact your wealth. Fine.
The OP wasn’t talking about hampering freedoms as per the rhetoric of the wealthy “if they gain, I lose” and “why should anything be taken from me, I didn’t cause them to be feckless, sick, useless scroungers”.
The OP wasn’t talking talking about how to stop people relying on welfare benefits by creating opportunities- by having a government that offers equitable access to EVERY opportunity.
That government has never existed and never will.
I don’t care whether people like Labour or wish it was a Tory government or will vote Reform (if they do they will regret that I’m sure).
IF the “choices” (by which you strictly mean opportunities not choices - because the choice to give gifts of money etc still exists but the consequences might be different) - would you want a government that (however they would do it) gave everyone a choice of private healthcare, school of choice, wealth to distribute etc - from birth or 18 or whatever the OP means..?
What magical kingdom would that be?

Carry on resenting potential changes to your wealth and opportunities for spending that wealth, that’s fine. You will be in a majority of people who feel like that (even if Reeves doesn’t do any of the things currently floating in the media), I’m sure people who have this level of current wealth will feel aggrieved at even the suggestion or hint of a thought that there’d be less wealth to spend for those who have it. I know my PILs are like that - and they haven’t been affected one iota since Labour came to power.

It is after all your choice to feel peeved at things that have yet to happen after all. It still doesn’t engage with what the OP asked, nor what I said either.

‘wealth based activities’ amazing!

I’m not missing the point at all, you are happy for other people to loose choices in their lives as you believe it won’t affect you. It’s not a new attitude.

Overthemhills · 10/11/2025 09:33

@BionicWomansAnkle
I think you are deliberately missing the point - the choices you speak of are not being “taken away” - the ability to give gifts of money or own second homes or have private healthcare and other wealth based activities are not available to everyone anyway. It is not what the OP is proposing and it’s not what I was talking about - the OP specifically speaks about a government that should give everyone the same starting point.
Clearly, you don’t think that should ever happen. That’s fine.
You feel aggrieved that Labour’s budget might impact your wealth. Fine.
The OP wasn’t talking about hampering freedoms as per the rhetoric of the wealthy “if they gain, I lose” and “why should anything be taken from me, I didn’t cause them to be feckless, sick, useless scroungers”.
The OP wasn’t talking talking about how to stop people relying on welfare benefits by creating opportunities- by having a government that offers equitable access to EVERY opportunity.
That government has never existed and never will.
I don’t care whether people like Labour or wish it was a Tory government or will vote Reform (if they do they will regret that I’m sure).
IF the “choices” (by which you strictly mean opportunities not choices - because the choice to give gifts of money etc still exists but the consequences might be different) - would you want a government that (however they would do it) gave everyone a choice of private healthcare, school of choice, wealth to distribute etc - from birth or 18 or whatever the OP means..?
What magical kingdom would that be?

Carry on resenting potential changes to your wealth and opportunities for spending that wealth, that’s fine. You will be in a majority of people who feel like that (even if Reeves doesn’t do any of the things currently floating in the media), I’m sure people who have this level of current wealth will feel aggrieved at even the suggestion or hint of a thought that there’d be less wealth to spend for those who have it. I know my PILs are like that - and they haven’t been affected one iota since Labour came to power.

It is after all your choice to feel peeved at things that have yet to happen after all. It still doesn’t engage with what the OP asked, nor what I said either.

BionicWomansAnkle · 10/11/2025 09:12

Overthemhills · 10/11/2025 08:54

I haven’t read the entirety of the thread because it’s too fast paced while I’ve been getting my daughter to school…
But what strikes me about this (seemingly never ending repertoire of ways to criticise benefits and this government) as peculiar to this particular OP’s stance is the notion of State controlled “self-reliance”, which the OP calls “equitable access”.
Now here are my questions-

  1. When in human history, in any country, has there been equitable access to opportunities?
  2. What is wrong with living a fairly basic life without holidays or a pile of Christmas presents or whatever woe-betide me thing Labour is supposed to have caused.

Unless history has changed since I went to school for most of history humans have en masse been controlled top down, as slaves or tenants or labourers (depending on the era) and the few industrialists or landowners or pharaohs had wealth and power.

obviously none of that was good. To me, the world is actually getting better in terms of freedom, opportunity (travel, employment, peaceful living without State control or endless hours of working as a child in a factory, mostly abolishing slavery (obviously trafficking and modern day slavery are still problems), education, healthcare etc.

The insistence that we have to be striving forth boldly to get more and want more is probably one of the many reasons some people feel intense pressure to do more than they can and feel inadequate, leading to depression.

I, for one, am pretty grateful for medical advances- I would be dead at 27 from cervical cancer if it didn’t happen that students could access free healthcare. I’d be dead again (as it were) if c-sections weren’t possible when my first daughter died in utero. And again if c-sections weren’t possible when DD 2 was born with an impossible natural birthing position of her limbs. She’d be dead if it wasn’t for medical intervention in her early days of life.
She would be in an institution if this were a different era (although some would argue on MN that she should either be dead or institutionalised because she’s disabled).

Yes my life would be better if I could work full time etc etc but honestly I’m actually grateful that I have had years of employment and had freedom to holiday and socialise - my daughter will never have those things. I’m lucky I got to university to study what I wanted because women in previous generations fought for my freedom to do that.

Economic black holes and cost of living crisis are scary subjects for many but the “I want to throw my hands up and live on the scrounge” posts sicken me beyond belief. I’d be careful what I wish for

Choices/freedoms are being taken away slowly but surely though? Children education choice, gifting money to your children, renting out your flat/house to try living somewhere else, starting a business, access to state health care, access to private health care, access to pension, access to invest… all though all still legal, these are all being chipped away at either by punitive legislation or prohibitive taxation

Overthemhills · 10/11/2025 08:54

I haven’t read the entirety of the thread because it’s too fast paced while I’ve been getting my daughter to school…
But what strikes me about this (seemingly never ending repertoire of ways to criticise benefits and this government) as peculiar to this particular OP’s stance is the notion of State controlled “self-reliance”, which the OP calls “equitable access”.
Now here are my questions-

  1. When in human history, in any country, has there been equitable access to opportunities?
  2. What is wrong with living a fairly basic life without holidays or a pile of Christmas presents or whatever woe-betide me thing Labour is supposed to have caused.

Unless history has changed since I went to school for most of history humans have en masse been controlled top down, as slaves or tenants or labourers (depending on the era) and the few industrialists or landowners or pharaohs had wealth and power.

obviously none of that was good. To me, the world is actually getting better in terms of freedom, opportunity (travel, employment, peaceful living without State control or endless hours of working as a child in a factory, mostly abolishing slavery (obviously trafficking and modern day slavery are still problems), education, healthcare etc.

The insistence that we have to be striving forth boldly to get more and want more is probably one of the many reasons some people feel intense pressure to do more than they can and feel inadequate, leading to depression.

I, for one, am pretty grateful for medical advances- I would be dead at 27 from cervical cancer if it didn’t happen that students could access free healthcare. I’d be dead again (as it were) if c-sections weren’t possible when my first daughter died in utero. And again if c-sections weren’t possible when DD 2 was born with an impossible natural birthing position of her limbs. She’d be dead if it wasn’t for medical intervention in her early days of life.
She would be in an institution if this were a different era (although some would argue on MN that she should either be dead or institutionalised because she’s disabled).

Yes my life would be better if I could work full time etc etc but honestly I’m actually grateful that I have had years of employment and had freedom to holiday and socialise - my daughter will never have those things. I’m lucky I got to university to study what I wanted because women in previous generations fought for my freedom to do that.

Economic black holes and cost of living crisis are scary subjects for many but the “I want to throw my hands up and live on the scrounge” posts sicken me beyond belief. I’d be careful what I wish for

Kirbert2 · 10/11/2025 07:44

YesSirICanNameChange · 09/11/2025 21:34

Who has conducted research into whether people on benefits want to work? The vast majority of people I know on benefits do want to work, but work is inaccessible due to health conditions.

Show quote history

That's my experience too.

I don't have any health conditions but lost my job the minute my workplace realised that my son's health needs would be life long and involve me needing more flexibility and reasonable adjustments to fit around his constant appointments and care needs.

No one wants to hire me because there's plenty of people out there available that they hire instead because why wouldn't they? In their eyes, it would be madness to hire me over someone who can work full time without any complications.

nomas · 10/11/2025 07:19

thepariscrimefiles · 10/11/2025 07:04

Your mum is a pensioner and is viewed as more 'deserving' by people who want to clamp down on people in receipt of benefits. It's quite amusing how the dial moves from 'benefit scrounger' to 'deserving pensioner', the minute that person reaches state pension age.

Is your mum eligible for pension credit because she is on the old-style pre-2016 state pension or because she didn't make sufficient National Insurance contributions for the full post-2016 state pension?

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She is on the pre-2016 state pension.

When Covid started, her PIP assessments stopped and I doubt she will be assessed again.

thepariscrimefiles · 10/11/2025 07:04

nomas · 09/11/2025 21:56

Not true though, my mum is mortgage free in a house in London and does very well on her state pension, pension credit and PIP.

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Your mum is a pensioner and is viewed as more 'deserving' by people who want to clamp down on people in receipt of benefits. It's quite amusing how the dial moves from 'benefit scrounger' to 'deserving pensioner', the minute that person reaches state pension age.

Is your mum eligible for pension credit because she is on the old-style pre-2016 state pension or because she didn't make sufficient National Insurance contributions for the full post-2016 state pension?

rwalker · 10/11/2025 06:53

I’m at the point now no mortgage kids no longer financially dependent
I could work less and have more free time and travel to places I want to go

but currently working extra cut back on a few things so I can have a few hard years to bump my pension up
but with all this talk of means testing not sure if I’m just wasting my time as not going to get any benefit of all that extra work and cutting back

Catsknowbest · 10/11/2025 06:10

Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 09/11/2025 10:04

Thinking of leaving the country.

You miss my point. Where you do have health issues or your family do, the government should be giving you a fighting chance.

what I see right now is disabled people remaining in poverty with very little opportunity to get out of that position. Few choices.

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Off you go then.

Catsknowbest · 10/11/2025 06:07

Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 09/11/2025 13:42

Pardon? Doesn’t that fall into the health category that isn’t a choice?

And wouldn’t you prefer a government that supports him to be able to have choices?

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What choices?!

duckfordinner · 09/11/2025 23:38

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 09/11/2025 11:40

I don’t think it’s most people at all. It’s the very vocal minority that shouts down everyone else.

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100%. Full on echo chambers

Original poster
Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 09/11/2025 22:40

InLawAgain · 09/11/2025 21:46

Bit harsh don't you think OP? Put the wine glass down and have a little empathy for what other people are going through and struggling with

Show quote history

It wasn’t intended as a harsh statement. Read it quite literally - I wanted to know whether the poster felt their government had done enough to provide choices.

OP posts:
PigletJohn · 09/11/2025 22:20

BringBackCatsEyes · 09/11/2025 22:02

She said "The majority of people claiming in the UK don't want to work".

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See also
PigletJohn · Today 09:55

BringBackCatsEyes · 09/11/2025 22:02

nomas · 09/11/2025 21:59

I don't think anyone is trying to make anyone else feel like crap.

Benefits are there for a reason and should be used when needed.

She’s taking about the millions of people who can work but choose not to.

Show quote history

She said "The majority of people claiming in the UK don't want to work".

nomas · 09/11/2025 21:59

BringBackCatsEyes · 09/11/2025 21:35

How to make someone feel like crap.
If I don't secure work in a few months I will be claiming benefits for the first time in my life. It won't be enough and I will likely lose me home.
Your default stance (majority of people claiming don't want to work) stinks.
How do you know this?

Show quote history

I don't think anyone is trying to make anyone else feel like crap.

Benefits are there for a reason and should be used when needed.

She’s taking about the millions of people who can work but choose not to.

nomas · 09/11/2025 21:56

thepariscrimefiles · 09/11/2025 09:50

Give it a go then OP. Leave your job and stop contributing to a pension.

I think that you'd need a few children with disabilities and a disability yourself to be better off not working than working and if you do fall into that category, I would imagine that your life would be very difficult indeed. A single unemployed person on benefits would lead a very frugal and miserable life with hardly enough money to buy even the cheapest basics.

You'd also then be part of the section of society that you despise and look down on.

Not true though, my mum is mortgage free in a house in London and does very well on her state pension, pension credit and PIP.

InLawAgain · 09/11/2025 21:46

Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 09/11/2025 10:01

You are absolutely right. The health issues that I specifically call out were not choices. You didn’t choose anything with regard to your health.

With regard to your life though, were you given any other choices? Or was it easier for the government to out you on PIP or whatever else you are on. Were your choices very limited? Should your government have done more to give you more opportunity?

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Bit harsh don't you think OP? Put the wine glass down and have a little empathy for what other people are going through and struggling with

BringBackCatsEyes · 09/11/2025 21:35

Falseknock · 09/11/2025 21:07

The majority of people claiming in the UK don't want to work. It's crazy politics in this country. Then they go out and vote and blame everyone else when the issue is it's own English citizen's. We need people to come to this country to work but it's not enough to cover the benefits bill.

Show quote history

How to make someone feel like crap.
If I don't secure work in a few months I will be claiming benefits for the first time in my life. It won't be enough and I will likely lose me home.
Your default stance (majority of people claiming don't want to work) stinks.
How do you know this?

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