Fuck it - the government will look me

Well, your opening post describes centre-right politics OP. You may not feel you align with a party but the 'aspiration' argument which is what you're making is really entrenched in right wing politics (I tempered it with 'centre' because it now seems we have an extreme right wing party in mainstream politics and I don't see any evidence you support them).

My view is that what you're talking about is the politics of envy. You assume that what you see in terms of "bad decisions being rewarded" is accurate in terms of a) people's living conditions and b) how human beings make decisions.

Unlike PP's comfortable mother up thread, my mother lives in social housing and it certainly is not luxury. Her choices are very limited in terms of her future and present life, eg she can't go on holiday, but expensive food, or decide where she lives. The support facilities in her building were removed during the last government. Has she made bad choices throughout her life? Yes. Was she at free liberty to make those choices, given socio-economic, mental health, social norms factors? Certainly not. Most of those choices were waiting for her like bear traps. Do I find her difficult? Yes. Not the point.

It's so very easy to praise yourself for your own decision making and look at other people's bad decisions and begrudge what they have especially when somebody is asking you to pay more for society as a whole. But it is ignorant - probably willfully- to the systems that in society which dictate your decision making and careless of the actual accuracy of the details of your argument. Simplified and wrong, basically.

OP - I do not see how being prudent and having the ability to save for retirement will possibly put anyone in a worse situaton that someone who does not save for retirement. Money buys choice if nothing else.

But I think I understand your point on barriers to equity/equality or simply improving one's circumstances. That however is a difficult thing to do as it can be so circumstantial.

For many women who find someone, settle down, have kids and reduce their work and then separate, they are undoubtedly shafted (and I don't think it is always easier for men but they usually have kept their careers going). Not true in all cases but an issue for many. For me, my choice to have children has left me financially worse off as has choosing a poor father for them who left us all in debt without a backward glance. But I would not be without them for the world even if I am looking at old age in poverty.

The issue is that there seem to be more people who want to break and take from the system than there are people who want to build and contribute. The former don’t have anything to offer to society as they are and can’t or won’t be made to contribute so services become ever more stretched and decent people end up having to pay more. I don’t know what the answer is.

What choices do you think the government should give to help those people?

Ah, come on, it is not unreasonable to worry whether oneself will be okay. It's perfectly natural, and it doesn't stop us worrying about others as well.

She pays £35 per week towards her rent! I pay for her internet, on a reduced social plan. She was in debt with her bills but I have sorted those out and set up DDs. And I do keep an eye on her spending. She is now able to live within her means, and doesn’t need assistance from me anymore. She gets pension credits, WFA and Attendance Allowance. Also she has her freedom pass.

is this true?

I've always wondered why I sometimes get a random reaction to something I posted months ago! That makes sense now.

You are absolutely right. The health issues that I specifically call out were not choices.

So what ones are ?

I just can’t see anything our government is doing will do anything other than perpetuate the ongoing problem.*

It won't, they aren't brave enough but the electorate don't want it.

Just checked that if she were living in my local area she would only be getting £600 for a one bed property which would on open market be upwards of £900. So she would need to find the shortfall from her state pension leaving her with £700 for council tax, heating, food, clothing etc
I'm hoping she is in a less expensive area where the benefits cover the whole housing cost.

What does that look like for you? How can the government support you/me/ our children to save for retirement, buy a house and have children?

What do you want to see?

Can I ask if her whole rent is covered by benefits? She is otherwise living on a state pension of less than £1k per month for all bills?

If you think you'd be better off, go for it and report back from a life dependent on the benefits system. At least then we'd have a first hand account of how it's so much easier for people who 'don't try' compared with people who do, instead of all this speculation that other people are living the life of Riley while you do all the hard graft.

@Phonicshaskilledmeoff i'm amazed how many people are missing your point

I don't agree with everything you say, (that's life) but I totally understand your point.

You mentioned that you might be better off spending it. Actually, I think that is one of the things they would rather you do. Because then they think that money is going to be back in the economy.

I think disincentives for saving are mad. I do think they are making an assumption that people will choose not to save and put that money into the economy. However, I would be even more inclined to save it and not spend it because nobody knows what's coming

Well, nobody ever knows what's coming, but when you feel as uncertain as some of us do now there's no incentive to spend

I will say I'm the kind of person who can't spend money on a £3 coffee to make the day better - actually scratch that, I presume it's four or £5 now because I don't go into coffee shops so I wouldn't know.

regardless, I understand.

@Phonicshaskilledmeoff I don't disagree that successive governments have fucked up, they have taken from the younger generations to protect the older ones which is a big factor impacting productivity. But many people don't have an issue with that & think they "earned it" whatever "it" is but this just makes us all poorer.

"In 2018-19, the government spent roughly £14,655 for each child in Britain, £10,178 for each working age adult, and £20,789 for each pensioner. Spending on the last group has risen even as spending on other groups has fallen. Similarly, NHS spending on the over-65s has hovered around two fifths over the past decade, with spending on this group set to rise as its numbers swell."

I'd go for it I was you. You won't look back - too many people seem think the UK is the still the centre of the world, when really it sliding further and further down the scales on almost every measure. As long as you haven't build a life where dependant on the generousity of the state, other countries offer far better opportunities.