Fuck it - the government will look me

Not true actually. DNiece had a child at 19- father walked away.

She was housed, supported whilst at college part-time & child care provided. She then went to university. She worked & then did a post-grad. She's now a primary teacher, married with another child & a mortgage- paying taxes & giving back to society.

She had a choice & was able to take it. I'm not saying everyone can, but she & others are given that choice.

Well you wouldn’t but they are. It started off with VAT on school fees. It was ok to whip up hate against the rich. Ironically, we are outliers there. It has just made private schooling more elitist than ever. Then they targeted the pensioners, then the disabled. They backtracked. Then employers, business and the private sector. Now it is anyone in a fairly normal job who has worked their way up and got a degree. Oh, not forgetting anyone who saves for a pension. The kite flying is on purpose so all of those groups turn their anger to welfare claimants and it then gives them the mandate to cut. Clever if it wasn’t going to scorch the Earth economically.

@Legolava I have said for years on here that child benefit & "free" childcare should be universal. The cliff edges are stupid and one reason I have stayed part time. DH doesn't bother doing much overtime because again not worth it when accounting for tax. It definitely harms productivity.

A few key differences to those economies people want to emulate are: higher taxes on lower and middle earners, time limited welfare and universal incentives

As i said I don't see how we increase taxes at the lower end with the distorted housing market.

OP accidentally left in a long dash!

An expensive and egregiously frivolous option.

No. I think the pain would be spread out.
I think retirement age would increase though, and we’d wave bye bye to free bus passes etc and the Triple Lock.
Over the coming years, State Pensions will disappear. It’s inevitable. Thankfully most people now have private pensions. Those who don’t should be fearful.

So. Disabled people are getting bashed if they get PIP and use it to lease a car. Disabled people are getting bashed if they get PIP and don't use it to lease a car.

I am off to spend my Carer's Allowance* on some nice wine to help me cope with this madness.

*Which I pay tax on. Am I a only a semi-scrounger?

Isn’t the website that helps people know what benefits they can claim actually called Entitled? I swear it’s something like that 🤣

To which I would add that very often those higher earners aren't relying on NHS or state education, which makes their higher contribution even more contributory.

@Calliopespa do you really think that? We have a decent income but use state education & whilst we use private healthcare for certain things I still use the NHS & did so for my births. My peers are similar.

Perhaps you are talking about those who earn a lot more but then tbf some of those won't be on paye.

I never claimed it was. Just that using it for a car is optional.

Yes it’s so engrained. We’ve created a problem, idk why that was wanted but it’ll be incredibly difficult to reset expectations.

The costs of each of those options have such wildly different price tags though, surely (given this is taxpayer money) more care needs to be taken in the cash allocation dependent on the reality of the needs of the disabled person?

Yet a quarter of all new cars are leased through taxpayer funding. So it’s not exactly rare, is it.

They came for the ‘rich’, those who could afford private school, private sector workers. Now it is people in fairly average jobs and the disabled. You vote in a party who has the type of divisive rhetoric Labour have, this is what happens.

@Legolava I really don't see labour as any more divisive than the previous tory government who did a fair bit of benefit bashing themselves & freezing the tax bands targeted a fair proportion of those on average salaries.

If it's too much money, quit your job and claim it.

Why? When it can be used to help their mobility needs in other ways?

The point is that it’s too much money, that should be handed out, if they can lease new cars with it.

To which I would add that very often those higher earners aren't relying on NHS or state education, which makes their higher contribution even more contributory.

It's hard because I genuinely think lower earners aren't in a position right now to contribute more.

Things are just feeling gloomy ...

The intended purpose is to help with mobility. That isn't going to be a car for everyone, it might be an electric wheelchair or taxis.

I get that, but if the benefit is substantial enough to pay to lease a car which the recipient does not want, then it shouldn’t be paid, surely?

I guess the problem is in the calculation to decide how MUCH money should be paid in PIP?

They came for the rich and realised that actually they were punishing the middle classes who then decided to not pay the VAT and put the children into state education instead. I know two people who are working in private currently. Both school’s reception numbers are low this school year. How sustainable that is going forward will depend on each individual school.

Left wing whatever isn’t really doing that well. People are realising Labour is stuffing it up.

The point is the money is awarded and the recipient decides what they do with it. There is no requirement to use it to lease (not buy) a car.

I don’t think we can. The whole mindset needs to change. It is cultural and will take generations to fix. The countries people want to emulate take pride in contributing, they see it as their public duty. We just have a majority population who want to know what they are entitled to from other people’s money.

It is a mindset. We are crabs in a bucket. If you do well and are successful, you
can’t be congratulated or keep the fruits of that success. You’re cash cows for an ever increasing majority who feel entitled to that money. People here don’t want to better themselves, they want other people to do it and take reward.

A few key differences to those economies people want to emulate are: higher taxes on lower and middle earners, time limited welfare and universal incentives. Here, we punish high earners because they must redistribute their money 👀 In other western countries, tax allowances, childcare and child benefits are universal. That’s because they want the higher and productive earners paying in as much as they can. Win, win for everyone. The higher tax payers keep paying more in. They feel they are getting something back and are valued. Here, they are hated and punished at every turn. They should be thankful they can work apparently. The hidden marginals higher tax payers face are a disincentive to working more. We are an outlier on this and it makes the burden very high.

It has been modelled and studied time and time again. Our tax system is harming productivity. The electorate here are too short sighted to realise that actually, there is a tipping point with tax. If the barriers to the greatest taxpayers were removed, for example: reduction of childcare, 100k cliff edge etc. There would be more money to fund their welfare state. It’s an act of self harm because the general public cannot see past their own nose.

Exactly. And that is wrong.
If they aren’t going to, or can’t, use the money for its intended purpose, it should be withheld.
Surely this is just common sense?