Fuck it - the government will look me

It’s beyond delusional to think that that IMF bailout is not on the cards.

@Swiftie1878 I just didn't interpret the above as could, I would never argue something couldn't happen.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/benefits/claiming_benefits_if_you_rent_from_family

coughs

The Tories were terrible for middle earners, or the rich as they are now defined. All the while increasing welfare and pensions. They were more Labour than Tony Blair. They actively harmed productivity. Labour are making it 1000 x worse. There is no-one they haven’t pissed off apart from a hard core few on MN. Their policies and kite flying are a bin fire. Their targetting of the jobs market was a disaster for the private sector and employment. That was deliberate because it was the private sector. It was those who private schooled. It was the pensioners (they are in for it again), now anyone who appears to get up, go to work and save for a pension. The only people protected so far are: public sector workers and welfare claimants. They are kite flying with the latter so the public anger does the job for them. The former, it’s all kicking off now. Some teachers, nurses, drs, police and military personnel are no longer workers…

It seems that to be elected, politicians have to make promises they can’t keep and the electorate will vote for them because they want so badly to believe that things can get better across the board. But with higher demands on taxpayers, and making money being disincentivised (whether by being a landlord, owning a company/farm, starting up and/or growing a business, crossing the £100,000 threshhold, etc) by ever increasing regulation and taxes of all kinds, it’s hard to see how the economy will grow. To say that other countries are facing the same dilemma is not much comfort.
I can see how people who can afford it would be tempted to move abroad.

The website is called "entitledto", it is independent and has been running since 2000 to help people navigate the benefits system throughout various reforms and changes.

They also research the benefits system and obstacles to people claiming the help they are entitled to claim.

This will probably get ignored as you're all too busy pissing yourselves with excitement at it being called "entitled", but whatever.

But does that change my point that plenty of them are?

@Calliopespa My point was I don't think the majority of those who pay the highest paye contributions all use private education & healthcare. Happy to be proved otherwise.

A single person working a minimum wage job would also be leading a very frugal existence with hardly enough money for the basics. Plus, they'd have to spend most of their waking hours working a boring, hard, thankless job. Frankly, I think I'd choose unemployment, with the abundance of free time that brings and only slightly marginally less money.
Low paid working people have the worse lot in this country imo. They also get looked down upon and blamed for their own poverty despite the fact the country would collapse without them.

@Legolava I agree the labour government has targeted the "rich" more than the Tories but I couldn't argue that the Tories didn't target anyone. I also don't think means testing winter fuel was an awful thing. I think there does need to be some benefit reform & the public want to see that.

**
I think we all acknowledge that bad governments are ones that take away choices. This government, however is also taking away choice by incentivising bad choices. Policies should nudge people toward self-sufficiency, not make state reliance easier than self-reliance, or rewarding short-term decisions over long-term

"When the government does everything for you, it soon takes everything away from you"

Crikey, seriously?

I believe 90% of our lives is the summation of our own choices

Work in a sink school on a council estate for a week and you’ll soon see how untrue this is.

You get the same amount even if you opt out of a car.

I opted for the car because it's essential I can travel with my severely physically disabled son. Frivolous indeed.

Oh, I’m not saying they’ll be comfortable. I don’t believe those currently relying on the state pension are comfortable either.
And most people have private pensions because by law, employers must provide them to staff. They may be utterly insufficient, but that’s a choice (again).

Exactly, so the bloated public sector and those in receipt of benefits (both courtesy of the tax payer) would be OK then

My uncle does this for my sibling, my sibling lives in his house and he gets housing benefits for it. Different surnames, the council/govt dont know they're related. Fraudulent, yes. Impossible, no.

Everything is seen as a left wing vs right wing issue now and it creates a lot of division.
Neither the Tories or Labour have really tried to tackle the welfare bill issue yet it's one of the few things we can do in this country to make things better.
I agree that the government need to support its citizens and there are many people who simply cannot work.
I also agree with the OP that the government should also try to lift people out of poverty.
The fact is there are too many people on benefits. I believe if you have ADHD, anxiety, depression or other mental health issues it is still important you go out and work. Long term sickness traps people in a cycle of hopelessness.

I also believe employers and the state can help in providing more mental health support. If a counselling session gives you the motivation and tools to get into work then it's a great thing.

Basically I think we have lost our work ethic in this country. In a lot of other countries there is pressure amongst young people, from parents or society, to have big careers like a doctor or lawyer. It's clear that in today's world not everyone can achieve this even with lots of top qualifications. In the UK we don't have that kind of pressure thankfully. All we ask is that you get a job earn a wage. Labour is supposed to be the party of the working class. The key word being "working".

There are other things we have some control over too:
Social media - IMO the bigger driver of behaviour issues amongst children and young people. It also promotes fear and division amongst adults (it's crazy how many people believe in conspiracy theories). It's also contributing to sexual offenses. It's entirely unregulated like the press or TV.

Crime - We need to get more young offenders out picking litter etc. Some of our towns and villages are a dump.

The UK like many other countries is skint and there are major causes for this that we have little control over:

Climate Change - crops are failing pushing up food prices, though I believe we may be able to grow chickpeas here in the next 30 years
Wars - Russia & Ukraine
Viruses - recovering from COVID, which came as we were just recovering from the 2009 financial crisis. We have to hope there is not going to be any more epidemics any time soon. We have seen AIDS and COVID in recent history.

In summary the boomers experienced a great time in history and it's unlikely we will have that again. The next generation will face challenges such as the loss of jobs to AI, climate change and the widening of the gap between rich and poor.

Well she’s right in that it COULD happen! I’m just a little more optimistic than that, obviously.

But does that change my point that plenty of them are?

But Rachel from accounts has decided to tax salary sacrifice. Which means people will save far less. And employers will also reduce/remove this because it will cost them NI.

So this thick as mince chancellor and government strikes again. Disincentivize the taxpayers from even saving for their own retirement to take their money so it can go to those who feel they have a right to your money instead.

Considering we’ve just established a large portion of the population are in receipt of benefits to survive why do you think ‘most people’ would have private pensions or enough private work place pension for a comfortable retirement ?

Yes, how apt.

Agree.

I said upthread I don’t want to return to the days of shame I felt as a child but when I stayed with foster carers I thought “I want this”.

Do you think we might be less overweight if the fast food chains were not bombarding us with adverts. Or the hospital where my son works in A and E had not just installed a Greggs or we taught kids in school how to cook and not food tec?

Choices are not always clear cut and down to the individual.

@Swiftie1878 absolutely the triple lock would go, it should be paused now.

However I simply replied to @WildLimePoet posts saying I didn't think we are near the point of an IMF bailout which would then result in stopping the state pension. She much think you are as stupid as me now!

Sums it all up really. Everyone is entitled to other people’s money. It’s like they feel they have a right to it. You will give me your money or I will call you names.