To be conflicted about Remembrance Services?

We've seen people in this very thread told they should leave the country for suggesting that we go over the top with things like remembrance celebrations for one.

The uproar we see every year when someone in the public eye doesn't wear a poppy on TV. A poster here recently revealed that she was threatened with disciplinary action for not wearing one at work after clients complained.

The nonsense stories that pop up every year about businesses/councils/venues etc banning the poppy because it offends Muslims.

The evergreen strawman: "How can we do X, when we've got veterans living on the streets?"

The suggestion that any number of things happening/changing in society is somehow a slap in the face of those who fought and died for our freedoms.

I'm not suggesting that we're all saluting a framed photo of the General before our tea and crumpets every morning...but we do lionise the military and castigate anyone who pushes back.

There has barely been a year since 1945 that the UK Forces haven't been in active service somewhere.
Northern Ireland, Gulf Wars, Afganastan, Bosnia, Falklands all come to mind.

Far too many UK veterans are left to pick up the pieces themselves without much support, a huge percentage seem to end up on the streets.

The US has veterans day, and seems to have far more support and respect for their ex military personel.

We will remember them.

In the nineties I used to think that Remembrance Day was fading and becoming irrelevant. The people who were involved in WWI had mostly died off; the survivors of WWII were in their seventies at least. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just me who thought that, it was common knowledge. Then, things changed. Giant poppies appeared in cities. People in the public eye got scolded for not 'wearing their poppy with pride'. It seemed to be the Iraq War that swung it. Attention passed to the new generation of soldiers.

I also think the best thing we could to honour those who died in war is to speak out against modern atrocities (like Gaza, the genocide in Congo, etc) and to call out the rise of fascism in the UK.

Yes. Silence has the power of consent.

My only real internal conflict with remembrance day is that sometimes some of the events feel like they cross over into the territory of glorifying the military. I'm very anti-war, and find this hard. I do not want an American style attitude to war to pervade the UK. I absolutely believe we need to remember history and reflect on the people who died and why/how certain wars happened.

I also think the best thing we could to honour those who died in war is to speak out against modern atrocities (like Gaza, the genocide in Congo, etc) and to call out the rise of fascism in the UK.

I think it is possibly a virtue worth signalling.

It’s not just about those that fought in the second world war. It’s about all those that have been harmed by conflict, whether mentally or physically. We know more of those with obvious injuries as they’ve been encouraged to speak out. But as an ex-MOD civil servant and old enough to be a bit of a mum figure I listened far too often to what keeps still-serving military awake at night, often desperate stories about others dying and the guilt they felt for their comrades, not stopping what happened or for those that suffered due to war. I think of those, and of my sin, an Army reservist, that may one day face such horrors too. Think on if you can, but much will be beyond your imagination.

This is so sad.

but yes the war generation were deeply traumatised, as were their children. There is a suggestion a baby boomers suffer generational trauma also

fetishizing the military? Really?? I don’t think the military play a part in your average British life. How does British society give them any more than a fleeting thought, really?

Purposely missing the point?

This thread is not a competition to see who can be more vile and stupid than the OP. But if it was, you'd be a serious challenger.

My grandfathers served in the trenches in WW1 and both of my parents served in the RAF in WW2. My father was captured at the fall of Singapore so was a POW for the rest of the war. To be honest I don't remember either of my parents being either engaged or disengaged with Remembrance.
As someone who has sung in church choirs since I was a child it's very clear that attendance at Remembrance services (in line with general church attendance) has dropped massively over the last 50 odd years anyway, so not sure why people seem to be raising it as a problem nowadays.
Personally I always take the 2 minutes silence to think about what my parents (particularly dad) went through during the war. That's my choice - I do think it would be nice if others would respect the silence out of consideration for others, even if it has no meaning for them personally.
This year, during the service tomorrow I'll also be thinking about the fact that the 9th November is the anniversary of Kristallnacht and wondering why we have apparently learnt so little in the last 87 years.

Are they the virtue signallers? I’m afraid I don’t agree with you there.

Remembrance day. Commemorate the dead.
Buy your poppy.
Question where all the millions they rake in go.
The dead dont need it
The living do.
What do they do for the living
Fuck all in my experience x

Why should she leave? As so many are quick to point out, wars were fought for our freedoms; that includes the freedom to celebrate or observe Remembrance, or to believe that we 'make too much' of it.

I think that we're absolutely guilty of fetishizing the military in this country, but I wouldn't shame someone for getting involved if that's what they wanted. It does sometimes feel that sentiment doesn't work both ways though.

Most of the Germans who died in battle were not Nazis.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/en/news-and-media/salute/june-2024

Scroll down to see pics of the virtue signallers.

This reminds me of the Jimmy Carr joke...

My grandfather was treated terribly by the Nazis in the second world war...

...passed over for promotion, time and time again.

My great uncle was a Nazi. My mum (his niece) was with the Free French. She was born in Germany but was a naturalized British citizen by the time war broke out. My mum's cousins were in the German army but weren't Nazis. Not all Germans were Nazis.

And Remembrance Sunday is not just abut the two world wars.

Doesn’t sound like your great uncle was on the other side, nationality doesn’t mean you are aligned with the views of the political party in power in your country

It's about respecting his.memory.

Ironic really isn’t it, when op is saying others don’t understand the causes, whilst really not understanding them herself it seems….

I get what you mean OP. I don’t wear a poppy, don’t do the 2 minutes silence, don’t watch remembrance parades. I don’t believe we need any of these things to remember, be grateful or appreciate the sacrifices that were made.
There’s an awful lot of virtue signalling around Remembrance Day.

I agree.

How do you know most people have no understanding of the causes? It’s probably irrelevant anyway as it’s entirely up to you whether you join in the remembrance or not. And pretty much none of your business if others do..