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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be conflicted about Remembrance Services?

185 replies

PaddlingSwan · 08/11/2025 21:32

I have friends and family on both sides.

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 09/11/2025 11:54

I don’t need reminding to remember victims of war both military and civilian. I’m personally starting to find it all a bit much. My grandfather and great uncles fought in the First World War, my grandfather was decorated (Military Medal, the highest gallantry award available to non officers at the time). My father fought in the second. He would say that he didn’t fight for me to be told what to do and how to think. I will remember in my own way today.

WithDiamonds · 09/11/2025 11:49

You write you had a relative who died directly because of the assassination attempt on Hitler, film is called Valkyrie by the way. I think that’s very much worth remembering. I had relatives who died in WW2 and whilst DH relatives survived it was life changing for them.

Brefugee · 09/11/2025 11:44

We've seen people in this very thread told they should leave the country for suggesting that we go over the top with things like remembrance celebrations for one.

We saw one poster suggest that one other poster the goady OP, leave if they don't like it. There has been plenty of good and nuanced discussion.

mumofoneAloneandwell · 09/11/2025 11:08

SeaAndStars · 09/11/2025 11:07

Or his dad who was in the navy during the war.

Ofc

SeaAndStars · 09/11/2025 11:07

mumofoneAloneandwell · 09/11/2025 11:06

Did my two minutes. We are so fortunate to live in these times, and for all the privileges we have.

King Charles looked weepy. Maybe he was thinking of his mum?

Or his dad who was in the navy during the war.

mumofoneAloneandwell · 09/11/2025 11:06

Did my two minutes. We are so fortunate to live in these times, and for all the privileges we have.

King Charles looked weepy. Maybe he was thinking of his mum?

EasternStandard · 09/11/2025 11:06

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:19

Dulce et Decorum Est

By Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

This is powerful and sad. There are young men and even boys facing the instruction to fight when I’m sure it’s not wanted. So sad.

I heard a news piece this morning about some soldiers who chose to stop on both sides (on a Japanese island I think), of course it’s not possible for those commanded in many ways but it was a glimpse of something else.

I find the whole cannon fodder thing unbearable and I still feel sad when thinking of those who were sent in the world wars.

tsmainsqueeze · 09/11/2025 10:39

Starconundrum · 09/11/2025 02:17

Remembrance is about your remembrance of those who have gone before.

You can remember anything you like. You can be on any side. You can honour any motivation. You can think of those who bravely fought. You can think of those who were coerced. You can think of the tragedy and the victims.
You can just think about it.

That's what it's for. It is not political. It doesn't have a side.

Just take a minute to remember and what that means to you.

Edited

Your post sums it up entirely , there is absolutely no need for analysis or beliefs, Remembrance Sunday and 11th of November are just that - to remember.

SerafinasGoose · 09/11/2025 10:21

Timeforabitofpeace · 08/11/2025 22:10

We SHOULD remember it. For a while I didn’t think so, but the rise of far right ideology means that we must remember the hideousness of them. Of course, it isn’t convenient today for those of a similar mindset.

That’s an interesting one, because a lot of the censure of those choosing not to wear a poppy seems to be predicated on stemming from leftist ideology.

The left and right seem to have forgotten what they are or actually stand for, and the distinction between the two is far murkier than it once was (even allowing for the horseshoe effect).

You’re right that the commemorations are a timely reminder of what ‘fascism’ and the far right actually mean. But these days those terms are such convenient put-downs that I suspect the lesson will go unheeded, irrespective of how many poppies are worn.

tsmainsqueeze · 09/11/2025 10:18

londongirl12 · 08/11/2025 21:38

for me, it’s remembering anyone killed in any war. Whatever side.

Exactly this !
I remember my family members who died and i always spare a thought to the other families across the world who lost loved ones too.
The posters on here who are saying the uk makes a big thing of it FGS it's one day ! don't watch tv ,don't buy a poppy ,don't engage ,but i bet you would be glad to have the British armed forces on your side if we ever get into further world wars.
Actually i feel a bit offended , one of my family was 17 years old when he was killed , he has no grave, i want the uk to make a big thing out of it ,his loss was huge in my family and i don't want him to be forgotten .

SerafinasGoose · 09/11/2025 10:13

Jeschara · 08/11/2025 21:49

It's about showing respect, the words they gave their tommorows for our today's come to mind.

If you are conflicted don't engage, leave it to those who wear poppies, and respect remembrance day.

It’s not necessary to wear a poppy to show respect.

My grandfather served in WWII, never wore a poppy in his life, and had no time for glorification. I donate to a PTSD charity and not the Royal British Legion.

There are many forms of respect. The trouble with the poppy is that it’s more lately become a symbol of policing others and behaving censoriously when they decline to conform. This sails perilously close to the ideology being fought against in the first place.

i don’t tell others what they should or shouldn’t wear or dictate the parameters under which they offer respect. That’s a personal thing. I also find that people don’t take too kindly to being told what to think.

IwishIhadcheese · 09/11/2025 09:50

You can and should remember ‘both sides’.

Mark it in whatever way is most meaningful to you. We might not go to a parade but we use it as a time to reflect and remember.

Mydadsbirthday · 09/11/2025 09:49

merryhouse · 08/11/2025 21:38

It's all gone very 80s, hasn't it?

It seemed as if it all changed in 1995, when we marked 50 years since the end of the war. The emphasis shifted from lions led by DONKEYS to LIONS led by donkeys

Now that practically all the veterans (and indeed their younger cousins) have gone, the tide is turning again.

What does this mean?

supersonicginandtonic · 09/11/2025 09:37

It's about remembering people. Not just from the world wars, from every war. My brother goes who lost friends when he was serving in Afghanistan.
I will be going to remember my grandad with my ex MIL. Her parents were German and also polish jewish. She remembers everybody. It's not about sides.

beulaballbreaker · 09/11/2025 09:31

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:19

Dulce et Decorum Est

By Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

And the poster who used the phrase Dulce et Decorum Est understood exactly the meaning of the poem. The mistake was yours, not theirs.

TooTiredMum2 · 09/11/2025 09:30

Namelessnelly · 09/11/2025 07:57

Do you know the sales of the poppy supports veterans, their families and provides vital support when they need it? Without the poppy sales, many many more veterans would not get the help and care they need, it should’ve the government providing this of course, but as they won’t, the RBL stepped in. How are the veterans in your country treated?

My post didn’t say anything against poppy wearing or selling, I just said that this doesn’t exist in my birth country. Our veterans are supported through a state pension system.

MinnieCauldwell · 09/11/2025 09:29

Mischance · 08/11/2025 21:55

I too am conflicted but for different reasons. My father was in Singapore in the 2nd WW. He refused to wear a poppy or have anything to do with remembrance events.

I lost my uncle in Singapore. I have known other men who feel the same as your father. They were so badly let down in Singapore.

Bruisername · 09/11/2025 09:24

I find this interesting because my German family are keen not to forget and really hate the move to rebrand the ‘baddies’ in ww2 as Nazis instead of saying Germans. they recognise the ‘bad things happen when good people stand by and do nothing’

so being from ‘both sides’ isn’t a competition and remembrance ceremonies on recent years have included German representation and they recently buried a German and a British WW1 soldier together in a joint ceremony I believe because we are far enough away to see it as an historic event but close enough to still try and learn

WhenDiedreMetKen · 09/11/2025 09:21

So now even this has been made a source of division? Stop living online and following morons? Stop thinking TikTok and youtube are real life. Lest we forget indeed!!

OttersMayHaveShifted · 09/11/2025 09:21

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:14

You have obviously never read that poem.
Fool.

I assumed the poster was criticising the message of the phrase 'dulce et decorum est pro patria mori', rather than criticising the message of the poem.

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:19

Dulce et Decorum Est

By Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

WhenDiedreMetKen · 09/11/2025 09:16

Wow yet another time I wish I had never opened the thread. Disgusting comments.

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:14

SameOldHill · 08/11/2025 21:43

I think I know what you mean. On the one hand you want to remember the poor lads who died but on the other you don’t want to join in the glorification of war in the form of “dulce et decorum es”.

Britain loves to remember the wars where they were on the right side of history whilst at the same time sweeping under the carpet the ones where they were belligerent colonisers.

You have obviously never read that poem.
Fool.

WhenDiedreMetKen · 09/11/2025 09:14

Both sides of what?

Bambamhoohoo · 09/11/2025 08:57

TooTiredMum2 · 09/11/2025 07:37

I’m from another European country and we don’t have that, it took me some time getting used to it. We have a simple minute of silence to commemorate the end of WW2 and a putting down flowers (by a representative of the government) but it’s not a noticeable part of public life…like no poppy wearing or similar, no events, and I’ve never heard anyone mentioning it to me in my day to day life. It does feel like there’s quite a difference.

Edited

Surely an European country affected by WW2 has a system of remembrance? I would suspect a deep generational trauma if not, because as others have said, it’s been a healthy way of working through the trauma with a positive outcome (eventually!)

my BF is South African, and yes, he thinks it’s weird. But it doesn’t matter that much as a point, there are many things they do in SA I find weird, it’s just different cultures, none better than the other.

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